#1 Female Attraction Trigger…. Personality!
20. Feb, 2012 
127 Comments
FACT: The Female Attraction Trigger is PERSONALITY!!!
Not really sure to how to start off this post because I am still kind of in shock. A couple of weeks ago I received an email from a guy in the U.S that has asperger’s. Asperger’s, in case you don’t know, is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.
He and I exchanged a few emails, then he wrote back recently with an email that kind of caught me off guard. He was frustrated by the fact that women do not evaluate men on their looks or physical attributes. Probably the opposite complaint to most men who come to my site. Check out his email to me, my response and then his response to me:
Don’t you find this fascinating?!!! The fact that someone who has trouble in social situations due to Asperger’s would PREFER if women were more superficial. He actually thinks it’s not fair and that women have it easier because they evaluate men based on their personality.
Take a minute and think about this one. Hopefully you find it as interesting as I do.
Let me know what you think.
Do you find it UNFAIR that the female attraction trigger is personality rather than looks?
Well, any sort of attraction trigger would be unfair to someone. I was a textbook example “nice guy” in my teens and thought it was unfair that women don’t find someone who’s so sweet to them attractive.
Some guys think it’s b/c they are fat/skinny so they think it’s unfair women pay attention to that. Women pay attention to looks as well, especially to masculine sex characteristics (square jaw, deep voice, etc’).
In general, if you lack in something you need to get something else you want, you’ll find it unfair. It’s like a game of Texas hold’em, but everyone wants to be given those pocket aces.
If this gentleman has Asperger’s (which one of my friends was convinced I had too), it’s a different situation. We’re talking about something slightly deeper than shyness here. I’m not sure how difficult it would be to get over the social limitations Asperger’s places on people (folks with Asperger’s can’t read facial expressions well and so have no way of telling how the other person feels… so much for detecting IOIs), but I hope it’s not a lost cause for him
Hi Marni –
I have actually done some research on this topic – and have concluded that women ARE attracted by looks. AND confidence! However, I have been told by many women that if they met Brad Pitt and found he had no confidence and/or no personality/ sense of humor – they would quickly dump him.
As for the comment about talking – and eventually losing a girl he’s attracted to – it happens to everyone! One little thing will make them change their mind. (They ARE so fickle!) What he has to remember is that HE also can change HIS mind! With the mentality that HE is the prize – and that looks are only PART of the picture – he will have a better chance of attracting a QUALITY woman – who is interested in a balanced, attractive, confident and intelligent man.
As for the women have it made and don’t have to approach comment – yes – it sucks. What I would suggest to this guy would be to go to parties and networking events where it is expected for all to make an approach. (A bar is a terrible place to meet a future girlfriend!) He can gain confidence in these environments before venturing out to meet women in other environments on his own.
I actually see where he is coming from-I think. For anyone with a condition which makes it difficult to form an all-around ideal personality, making relationships work is so difficult. I face this with my own battles with depression (remember me, Marni?). With stereotypes of people with mental ailments abounding – especially with men who don’t have the guts to admit it – I just think the dynamics for dating are NOT the same. Faking till I make it just causes more anxiety, panic, fear, melancholy, deeply exhausted.
At the end of the day the whole dating dynamic I cannot get my head around, and you have to keep quiet about depression, lest you will give that woman a reason to have second thoughts or have another reason for people to see you and you own self as inferior. So guys like in my man aboves condition really have no one to talk to about their problems with relationships, so kudos to Marni for giving him conversation – something few women will actually do for a man unless their in a care vocation.
This situation with Apsbergers is on point with what I think is missing with some of this material-not downing what any of the dating facilitators do. All these programs, etc. are swell, but there are those of us men for whom social interaction or lack thereof is simply part of our makeup. I’m a jazz singer, I know I’m not shy and my audiences know it! Perhaps for some of these podcasts you could do a show or two on dating with illness, mental or otherwise. I’ve heard the short dude before (forget his name), but my friend above and people like me, I think are different story, not that i’m placing myself in his shoes. I’ve never heard any of the dating gurus talk about mental illness except once a few years back, and the only thing they said in passing was “if you have depression see a therapist”. Again I am not putting down anyone I just want to know why is it so hard for the seduction/ dating/ inner game community afraid to talk about dating with mental illness, and whether it can be done or not? Should we seriously just give up the ghost?
I think the fact that women mostly respond to things other than looks is the most amazing opportunity.
You can become THAT GUY.
Just think about that for a moment.
I can pretty much confirm this. My persona is often a double sided coin. I’m fairly harsh and have a horrible sense of humour. I accept that not everyone reacts well, but I value those who’ll accept me.
As someone who genuinely has the condition, I understand the difficulty but I’d much rather be judged on my personality. This is also why I’m working to change aspects of mine and try to get some reliable feedback.
I think everyone judges based on looks but it takes a very superficial person to act on those judgements. One of my former housemates was like that. She was kinda hot but obnoxious and – i say this with utter sincerity – very stupid without much motivation to learn. I’m glad she’s gone. It’s going by just looks that would have only enabled her. This is why I hate it when people like that guy do that. It can be a very bad thing.
Also, by stupid, I don’t just mean stupid. I mean genuinely condescending, hypocritical or offensive through stupidity. That shit sends me in a rage.
Hey James
best of luck in working on that ‘two sided coin’ of yours. It takes a lot of self awareness to try and improve: and as you pointed out superficiality is one of the least attractive things, both men and women, can possess.
Marni
Or, you can be the very good looking guy (almost fitness model I might add) who’s actually made an attempt to learn the things that Marli, Carlos Xuma and David D teach about being a real confident man and bought their products and only have the girl go for a fat lard who only studies, has never had a girl in his life, has no social circle but is only a little sweeter (freakin wuss) than you… Now that makes no sense!
Sounds like you may be referencing a personal experience there Cal!
If so, sorry to hear that. Attraction is a complicated one: but by working on yourself, having good self esteem and never *needing* a woman will all make you a very attractive person
Marni
“Do you find it UNFAIR that the female attraction trigger is personality rather than looks?”
In a way, it is.
Because “personality” is such an umbrella term. what exactly does it mean? behavior? beliefs? experiences? I think I have a great personality, no one here would agree because they judge me from what I write (which is fine, thats all you know) which is based in a lifetime of negative experiences in this domain.
What’s more unfair is that men have no actionable feedback as to what to change. Women have a clear cut line how to get to the finish line (of course, it’s harder for someone women to ‘look good’ due to genetics etc etc) but they at least know what they have to do. It’s plain as day.
Guys get all kind of conflicting advice:
-take charge vs don’t be controlling
-be sensitive vs be masculine
the problem is women want to be “receivers” ie not initiate anything, just sit back and receive, but also be judges, which is somewhat of an active thing actually.
“Do you find it UNFAIR that the female attraction trigger is personality rather than looks?”
THIS QUESTION MAY BE GOOD FOR DEBATE BUT IT DOESN’T HELP MEN TO IMPROVE THEIR SOCIAL STANDING AMONGST WOMEN.
“A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
– DH Lawrence
Dwelling on what is “fair” is unproductive on our own personal terms.
Women behave as they do because of genetic and social influences outside of their control and ours.
We should all just get on with doing the best we can.
If any of us are struggling to improve ourselves we should not be using this forum to complain about things that “are not fair”.
I understand now after years of education why women behave as they do and it makes total sense to me. Because I am prepared to look at things from their perspective.
Stop concerning yourself with what is and isn’t FAIR. Life isn’t fair. Just deal with it.
word!!!
“I think the fact that women mostly respond to things other than looks is the most amazing opportunity.”
Disagree. it’s also a nebulous black hole. You can also NEVER be that guy.
For me, I really don’t give a rats ass what they’re attracted to, it can be anything, I just wish they were more clear and up front about BEING attracted when they are.
“Disagree. it’s also a nebulous black hole. You can also NEVER be that guy.”
Disagree again.
I’m half way there on my journey to become that guy.
I don’t see why if I can improve myself you can’t do the same? As long as you drop the “CAN’T DO” attitude.
Word x2 !!!
It actually works better that way…
After a while, a hot girl starts looking like everyone else. Like getting a new cool toy when you were a kid, you play with that for 6 hours and now you’re bored with but yet you screamed at the top of your lungs for your mother to get it for you in the middle of Toys R US.
So once the excitement of having it wears off, you start looking for that same “high” again. Basically I believe this is why men cheat.
Anyway, If you have chemistry with a woman and you’re a big fat slob, she will think you’re the best, I believe this is why men “let themselfs go and don’t improve thier apperance” cause we know she likes us for our personality and not cause we wear t shirts with holes in them and our beer bellies hanging over our belts.
Honestly, I think men and women alike should just get to know and love themselves deeply (which may require you to undergo an involved process of getting rid of baggage/conditioning/craziness before you get to who you are at the core). Once you get to a place where you’re not thinking about how or what to change about yourself in order to attract a certain ‘type’ and embrace yourself in totality is when, in my experience, you start attracting the people who are right for you. Then it isn’t a question of acting the ‘right’ way.
How can you ask anyone to love you when you don’t love yourself (i.e. when you make no effort to find your passions, live your life, etc.)?
Hey Isabella
Yes I totally agree with that sentiment. The more complete you are as a person, the higher your self esteem and image: often the more attractive you’ll be to the opposite sex.
Marni
“After a while, a hot girl starts looking like everyone else. Like getting a new cool toy when you were a kid, you play with that for 6 hours and now you’re bored with but yet you screamed at the top of your lungs for your mother to get it for you in the middle of Toys R US.
So once the excitement of having it wears off, you start looking for that same “high” again. Basically I believe this is why men cheat.”
I agree. but you did enjoy that toy while you had it for that 6 months didn’t you?
Personality may be key here, but I think people forget that personality is linked to experiences, and experiences are linked, well, to many thing, and in the area of female attraction, it’s linked to looks.
Consider this scenario:
A good looking kid in his adolescence gets a lot of attention from women, they smile at him, so he smiles at them back, they talk to him a lot, so he gets a lot of practice talking back, and they laugh at his stupid ass jokes so he thinks he’s funny, he forms that belief.
He also forms a belief that ‘hey Im pretty attractive, I can attract women pretty well, I’m cooler than most guys around me” so he’s got a good feeling when he’s around women, and since he’s succeeded so much in the past, he doesnt freak out about trying to attract every single one, because hey, he knows he can attract another one around the corner if he has to….
Women see this and say, “WOw! he’s got such a great personality! Im not even thinking about his looks at all! He’s so nice, he’s so cool, bla bla bla”
Yet they conveniently forget how looks played such an INSTRUMENTAL part of WHY HE GOT THAT WAY.
Yes, it’s true an avg looking person can tread the same path, but he’s got to really force the issue. and be somewhat delusional to establish the same beliefs.
However, a good looking guy will almost ALWAYS have a great initial personality, of course their true colors may come out at a certain point… which leads me to this point:
“Anyway, If you have chemistry with a woman and you’re a big fat slob, she will think you’re the best,”
I think this depends a lot on her, especially if she’s been that “toy” that’s been dumped after 6 hours or months and gotten bored with. So “chemistry” at that point translates to “guy that will never leave me” and I heard a woman actually say this to my face, I went to a “beauty and the geek” speed date, and she said she came because she felt geeks would “appreciate” a beautiful woman more, because they likely don’t have that experience…
and she’s right. but hey, that’s what a beautiful woman gets to do, the privilege of choice, the privilege of kicking someone while they’re down.
We don’t forget that some guys seem to have had their attractiveness skills and mindset handed to them on a silver platter by circumstance.
We just think it’s irrelevant.
The rest of us have to work a bit harder. Well boohoo. I’m on the most amazing journey of my life and I wouldn’t change that for anything. I’m going from being the invisible ignored quiet guy to being the guy beautiful women want holding them.
The deeper you dip the higher you rise.
Are you going to sit on the ground grumbling that it’s a long climb or are you going to start walking?
“We just think it’s irrelevant.”
But it’s not, because personality is not the #1 trigger.
“Are you going to sit on the ground grumbling that it’s a long climb or are you going to start walking?”
No I’m already walking, grumbling that it’s a long climb, and not unprovoked either, Im responding to people telling me that it’s not a long climb. or that say, the legs I was born with are irrelevant to the climb.
I wouldn’t say looks is irrelevant, everything is relevant; looks, personality, money, lifestyle, clothing, whatever, everything.
But, from my experience (which includes watching other guys pull off seducing women). Yes, personality is the most important trigger. Looks can give you an initial edge, but that edge will be gone within seconds if you don’t have the personality to back it up.
And ya, some guys were handed their experience on a silver platter,they are good looking, so they got hit on a lot by girls, so they formed positive beliefs and habits which developed an attractive personality, which made even more women hit on them putting them in the top of the seduction ladder.
I’m not that that kind of guy, and I’ll never be. I’ll never be able to get women interested in me based on looks only, I’ll never be able to regain any time I lost when I didn’t know this stuff, and there’s a lot of other things I won’t be able to do, and it sucks. But the fact that there’s so much material available, there’s types of advice for almost any occasion and there are some FREE forums out there that are all about building a support group and help guys help each other improve is a wonderful thing.
So I don’t think it’s unfair that women judge men based on personality more than looks, b/c personality can be changed. Looks, and by looks I mean things like your face shape, your height/size/general skeletal structure, and any traumas that may have happened to your body are much harder to change.
“So I don’t think it’s unfair that women judge men based on personality more than looks, b/c personality can be changed. Looks, and by looks I mean things like your face shape, your height/size/general skeletal structure, and any traumas that may have happened to your body are much harder to change.”
I completely disagree. well, with height and skeletal structure sure, those can’t be changed. so a short man might have it a bit rougher.
skeletal structure doesn’t account for too much.
But gym workouts, plastic surgery, style tips, etc etc are all pretty easy, provided you can afford them.
but changing your personality is damn near impossible I’d say. I’ve been handed middle finger after middle finger by most women (of course it comes in the form of “lets just be friends”)
surely that’s affected a lot of my “personality” in this regard. changing my personality would me erasing those experiences., which like I said. is damn near impossible
but changing your personality is damn near impossible I’d say. I’ve been handed middle finger after middle finger by most women (of course it comes in the form of “lets just be friends”)
You are putting yourself into that friend zone.
There is tons and tons of advice on this site on how to stop hearing that from women, but you think it’s all bullshit. So I’m not going to direct you to anything.
I’ve taken a class about philosophy and religion once, during which we proved, mathematically that punishment/reward-wise, it’s worthwhile to believe in God. That was all fine and dandy, except that begged the question “okay, so suppose now I know believing in God is worthwhile, but I’m still an atheist, how would I change that?” and the response that was written by another philosopher was that the best way to make a change like that is to act AS IF you believe, and doing it long enough would internalize the faith.
I think the same “fake it ’till you make it” idea applies here. If you believe that your personality is a problem with regards to meeting women, then for a while you need to imagine what someone with the kind of personality that would be attractive would do, and fake that. It’s not a long term fix, but it’s a fix for long enough to get some positive experiences. Which then help shape your personality and so on.
And in a way, the ideas of learning how to interact with women (and people in general) versus just winging it and the useless form of “just be yourself” are like religious battles.
I went out today and talked with a few girls, and only the fat ones showed me any interest. I reallly have no idea why this continues to happen to me.
If I’m so bitter and angry and unconfident shouldnt that scare away the fat ones too?
Do I just have a face that screams “I know how to cook!”
“If I’m so bitter and angry and unconfident shouldnt that scare away the fat ones too?”
No, basically.
The “fat ones” as you so sensitively put it, most likely don’t get as much male attention due to their physical appearance so they are more willing to put up with guys who are less charming.
Beggars can’t be choosers.
Then fuck a fat chick!
Maybe you’re fat yourself?
Stop thinking that fat women are “easier to get” cause they are fat, So many guys place women in “easy” “maybe” “hard and “out of my league” catagories by how hot they are. Miss March would be “out of my league” and Miss 800 pounds is “easy”.
This is why skinny guys walk around with a fat wife cause they settle for what they think is an “easy catch” because they don’t believe they can have what they really want.
If only “fat chicks” want you, maybe you should stop talking to them?
“If you believe that your personality is a problem with regards to meeting women, then for a while you need to imagine what someone with the kind of personality that would be attractive would do, and fake that.”
I actually pretty strongly disagree with it, because the problem is you know you are faking it. so they’ll always be this voice inside you thinking, “who am I kidding?”
That’s why advice to lean back and this body language and that body language is idiotic. body language is a REFLECTION of internal state, sure body position can alter internal state , VERY temporarily, you basically need to get lucky, theres only so much you can do yourself.
Your behaviours create the results you’re getting. If you want new results you need new behaviours.
If you don’t try new behaviours, you will be stuck forever with the old results.
It only seems fake if you try to do too much at once.
It’s absolutely UNFAIR, and that’s GREAT news. I can’t change my genes, but I can change the way I think. We all can. It’s been a long climb for me, and I’m still facing 90% of the climb, but I know when I get to the top, the view is going to be fantastic. How awesome will it be to have an UNFAIR advantage? I predict it will be really sexy.
Hey Todd
Really great to hear you thinking so positively! I totally agree you can change the way you think about things: good luck going forwards
Marni
Awesome post Marn, Your latest blogs, newsletters, programs had been simply outstanding. I also do believe that the others so-called pro-puas are rabid on what Marni puts on the table and i do absolutely believe those puas are refering to this site to distill and revaluing what they´re teaching.
Do alpha femme exists? i once was told that a female can never be alpha because then it would not be alpha…
But i actualy do believe that this term is rare in women and certainly women like Marni is an alpha girl and they are exceptionaly rare.
So Marni, thank you for everything.
Just read this- thank you Ofelius!
Skw
“I went out today and talked with a few girls, and only the fat ones showed me any interest. I really have no idea why this continues to happen to me.”
Sorry to you PC people out there. I’m not PC.
At lest you are getting the Fat ones to talk to you. Use them as stepping stones.
Hell man I can’t get the handicapped to look at me.
“Do you find it UNFAIR that the female attraction trigger is personality rather than looks?”
It´s so mysterious, enigmatic and fascinating as well, just like women.
That’s a good way of looking at it Ofelius!
As odd as it sounds since I’m a very plain looking guy (neither ugly neither handsome), after having read all of the self-help books about confidence mattering more than anything else I don’t know if was re-assured or, on the contrary, even more desperate now since I’m totally beta, very shy, lack creative skills, lack conversation skills, lack wit etc. These things can’t easily be learned but are part of your genetics. The outcome is the same: I get no women.
The one thing that matters most imho is a man’s HEIGHT. It matters to women directly but also, indirectly, by how you position yourself with regard to other men. It’s a scientific fact that tall men succeed better, earn more, perform better at sports etc and get that overall edge in all aspects of life. With my short height (5’8″) I often feel inadequate and inferior and sometimes simply intimidated by taller men around me. I also hate it when men with big hands (another thing women seem to crave for) nearly crushes my little hand during a handshake (think business deals or politics!) No self-help book will cure this.
I’m 5’9″. You can make it not matter.
I may have said this before but all self help material is only as good as the action you take.
Confidence comes from courage, and courage is when you feel fear but you act anyway. You need to get into the habit of doing things that scare you, just a little. Every time you do this you are expanding your comfort zone. If you do that for a year, you’ll find you can look back and you won’t recognise who you were at the start of it.
It’s also, I warn you, intoxicating. It’s easy to get hooked on it.
Hey Fred
sorry to hear you feel this way. I’m sure a man’s height does come into consideration with women, and in other aspects of life, but it is only one factor.
If you had zero else going for you then maybe being 6’2″ would make a difference: but women are attracted to a wide variety of things, as you also noticed.
And these social skills of having more presence, appearing more confident can be learnt.
Also don’t put too much stock on your height- 5′ 8″ is totally fine and there are plenty of women out there that will feel attracted to you if you can just put yourself forward.
Good luck
Marni
First of all, I’m as tall as you. The human psychology (I mean brain) is the main enemy in the road of accomplishing goals, because its instincts aren’t changed as fast as human brain (evolution). For example making a phone call won’t kill you, but your brain will imagine the worst that can happen. My brain sometimes tells me that I’m too short and so on, it’s really hard to “kill” that thought. You just have to brake that thought by putting it under suspicion. Eventually you discover that that statement is not true and there are many women for you. The best way doing anything(e.g. approaching) is to JUST START (Idea is from part 2 of the The Wealth Builder’s Blueprint by Donald Trump).
Peoples thoughts make SO big impact to their life that they can’t imagine it. What I’ve learned over time is that you shouldn’t say that I can’t change my genes or it is in my genes, because you CAN do it. Scientists observed water crystals, when they said bad words then crystals turned into ugly shapes, but when they said nice words then water crystals turned into really beautiful shapes. There are many more examples how people could literally kill themselves with their thoughts, like with life threatening diseases.
I read about this from Dr. Wayne Dyers book called “Stop The Excuses: How To Change Lifelong Thoughts ” (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stop-Excuses-Change-Lifelong-Thoughts/sim/1848500270/2)
I got main the idea from there.
In conclusion: YOU SHAPE YOUR DESTINY WITH YOUR THOUGHTS because thoughts become actions.
Hey Mike
I agree that your mind is the most powerful tool both in attracting others and how you feel about yourself.
And I do think by being a positive person, taking action, that you can help to shape out the life you want
Marni
Parkey, that is an absolutely GOLDEN post. Your post just above is an entire self-help book condensed into about 100 words. It’s SO good I’m going to copy it into my Word document that I call “Absolute Truths Of Pickup,” which is my collection of ultra-pithy aphorisms about women, pickup and life.
Mike, your comments about the power of the mind are also right on. So true.
Love you and your healthy positiveness, Marni!
Repost Parkey post. I want to see what you are referring too
Three comments: 1)”Unfair” translates into “the world isn’t designed to make MY life easy”. In THE FIVE THINGS WE CANNOT CHANGE (and What We Gain By Embracing Them), David Richo points out that LIFE is not fair. 2) Women aren’t the way I think they should be; women are the way they are. T. Harv Eker has polinted out that losers whine about reality; winners utilize reality. 3) Becuae men are drawn by appearances, a woman might feel she needsto pay for a boob job. Because women tune in to the inside, all I have to do is learn to be less of a boob.
Yesss! You speak the truth!
Like.
Hey David
these are great comments- very witty.
And as several people have pointed out here: life isn’t ‘fair’ or sometimes the way we think it should be.
But with improved understanding, a little patience, I’d love everyone to be a ‘winner’ who utilizes ‘reality’ to have a more successful, happier life as a whole.
Thanks
Marni
“Your behaviours create the results you’re getting. If you want new results you need new behaviours.”
and I could equally say if I want new behaviours (believable ones anyway) I need new experiences to back them up.
So pick a new behaviour from the thousands out there on the internet (one that you think at least sounds promising) and use it on those “fat ones” that will talk to you.
It could be something as simple as smiling more. You don’t need any new experiences before you can try “smiling more” so that’s broken your vicious circle.
If you get good responses your confidence in your ability to improve will increase and give you momentum to try another new behaviour. And so the improvements continue.
“But T Ruth, these behaviours don’t stand up to logical enquiry.
Loads of guys say they do these things and then women want them, but the behaviours do not stand up to logical enquiry.
I would rather try to think of my own logical solution rather than just say what the heck and do stuff guys tell me to try.
These brainless teenagers can figure it out, so the answer must lie within the realm of analysis and reason.”
“the behaviours do not stand up to logical enquiry”
Yeah, I know what you’re saying.
I have been actively reading to try to understand the woman’s perspective for a while now and it is very difficult to see things from a female point of view. But the better I get at it, the more things actually make logical sense to me that previously from a purely male perspective seemed like nonsense.
I am more in favour of thinking “of my own logical solution” too. I think that’s the more intelligent way to develop yourself and it also allows you to maintain your own integrity rather than feeling like you’re behaving like someone else.
I’m with you on this one. I was being satirical.
Thanks for your comments T Ruth- and for pointing out that a successful relationship is based (on both sides) on far more than just physical attraction.
Marni
You have to fly the new behaviours on instruments for a while until the experiences catch up with you.
People will often give back to you what you project, which is based on your expectations are, which is based on intuition.
So you have to ignore it and fly on instruments. Your intuition is wrong!
It’s effing hard work. These days I occasionally find myself dancing jive with a gorgeous, gorgeous woman who is laughing, smiling and loving it… And there’s still that little voice there saying “don’t believe it! It’s a trick! She’s going to hate you in a moment! You are about to get hurt!”
Takes time to adapt.
” I also hate it when men with big hands (another thing women seem to crave for) nearly crushes my little hand during a handshake (think business deals or politics!) No self-help book will cure this.”
Fair enough man, I’m avg height, (5′ 11″) and I won’t proceed to tell you that “it’s all in your head” or some fluff like that.
I can see the frustration in some of the guys that are a bit shorter. I remember one woman using the fact that Salman Rushdie (a short guy) was once married to Padma Lakshmi (international supermodel) as “proof” that short guys don’t have any difficulties.
Thats like saying, look at Stephen Hawking, therefore anyone with Lou Gehrigs disease is bound to be a famous scientist!
A lot of opinions here. I agree that personality has a lot to do with it but that personality comes from inside of the guy. It’s a product of confidence and self worth. Those that think they are unattractive or have quirks they consider unattractive have poor confidence that reflects in their personality. Having been divorced now for 2 years after a 22 year marriage I totally agree that men fall back on their personality to keep things going. I didn’t work on physical appearance and let myself go. When I found myself back in the dating world I had no confidence in myself because of my outward appearance and this negatively effected my personality. So now I’ve dropped 40 pounds and am in the best shape of my life and the confidence level is up and my personality is much brighter (at least that’s what I’m told). So all things go into this.
Now is it fair that women base their attraction on personality? It’s no different than men basing attraction on physical appearance is it? Something has to be the trigger. Something has to get the ball rolling. In my case a lack of self worth effected my confidence which reflected in my personality which kept women away. Now that it’s starting to swing the other way I seem to be more attractive to women…go figure.
Hey Marni,
I’m only 5’8″ but thanks to you I do a little better than OK with the ladies
That said, I really do feel for the guy with the Asperger’s though. My understanding is that he has difficulty learning to smoothly interact, just as some people have difficulty with sports or some people have a block with mathematics. It’s a big challenge to overcome.
If the Asperger’s guy is good-looking, then I can imagine his pain even more, believe it or not. He actually suffers more painful rejections than the average-looking guy. See Marni, I can tell you as a shorter guy that getting turned down because the woman wasn’t attracted to looks doesn’t hurt that much. What hurts the guy more though, is when a woman is initially interested–due to the guy’s looks, but then as she sees he has no personality, she get turned off. My take as to why: Not being good-looking enough or tall enough is hardly a deficiency on the guy’s fault, but not having a personality is, or at least it sure feels that way.
Interesting post Mike, and very perceptive.
I believe that having good looks or being tall don’t actually create attraction in women, it just creates the expectation that the guy can create attraction. They expect that he therefore has the right attitudes and skills. It’s usually correct, let’s face it, because these are the guys who get the most practice.
Have to feel for those guys.
The guys with aspergers that is.
Not those tall prettyboys who have it easy. :p
Thanks Parkey. And I agree with you that a great thing about being male is in our upward mobility is the dating world as you talked about.
And yes, as you mentioned, women are attracted to good looks often because in their minds anyway it implies charisma, and if a good-looking guy doesn’t have that charisma, there’s a let-down. I think that when it comes to attracting women, an average-looking guy with average charisma actually has an advantage over a good-looking guy with average charisma for that reason.
That said, getting rejected for “surface” stuff such as not tall enough, not good-looking enough–which may happen in approach-type situations–is easier for guys than being rejected for deeper stuff such as lack of personality or lack of masculinity. The deeper stuff is, as you talked about, something that we as guys can change, but it’s harder for some guys, such as someone with Asperger’s. Anyway, I suspect that this guy has been getting rejected for the above deeper stuff, and so I can imagine this guy’s pain in the emails he sent to Marni.
Hey Mike
I liked your point about uncharismatic good looking guys being a let down. Charisma is so important to women: if you have a great attitude then that is going to be a lot sexier than a model looking guy who doesn’t ‘back up’ his great looks with a charming personality.
Marni
Agreed!!!!!
Whether anything is or isn’t “fair” is irrelevant. Life itself isn’t fair; kids get cancer while sharks don’t. Get used to it.
That said, as a fellow Aspie, I understand the guy’s frustration. I’m not terribly good with people either; until I got a lucrative, powerful career gig I had no success to speak of with women.
I’m not sure how one who faces as significant a barrier as an autism spectrum disorder develops the “personality” necessary to attract women. Maybe he would be better off following the path that I did.
At just under 54 years of age I am finding that women online do react to some old pictures of me and that seems to be based on looks. I uploaded several pictures of me to Netlog and immediately women half my age that live NOWHERE NEAR ME are wanting to be my friend! I actually turned a few of them down because I knew that I would never meet them in person due to the location diffeences.
However, whenever I try to connect with younger women in person the age diffence does seem to be a factor. In person, I cannot hide the fact that I am about 40 pounds overweight and have chronic health problems. Women who seem to like me are still refusing to spend time alone with me! Here, personality is just not enough!
However, when I lived in Riverview, Florida I did get some interest from women around 70 years of age!
don’t let it get you down. Here is a small message with big meaning to you. Get the book ” the 80/10/10 diet” by Douglas Graham. Give me your email and I will send it to you.
Your health problems are there because of your food, eat fruits and vegetables and your health problems, All, will be gone. I promise you this.
6 months you will be a different person
Hey Mike
I’m sorry to hear about your experiences (especially the ones in Florida!). I would say that it’s important to work on yourself (whether that’s trying to be as healthy as possible) but also to be honest. Put your real self out there. Maybe this doesn’t convert so well on internet dating, but real life allows more sparks to fly and things like a personality to shine more.
Marni
Hi Marni – sorry if this is a double entry!
I have actually done some research on this topic – and have concluded that women ARE attracted by looks. AND confidence! However, I have been told by many women that if they met Brad Pitt and found he had no confidence and/or no personality/ sense of humor – they would quickly dump him.
As for the comment about talking – and eventually losing a girl he’s attracted to – it happens to everyone! One little thing will make them change their mind. (They ARE so fickle!) What he has to remember is that HE also can can change HIS mind! With the mentality that HE is the prize – and that looks are only PART of the picture – he will have a better chance of attracting a QUALITY woman – who is interested in a balanced, attractive, confident and intelligent man.
As for the women have it made and don’t have to approach comment – yes – it sucks. What I would suggest to this guy would be to go to parties and networking events where it is expected for all to make an approach. (A bar is a terrible place to meet a future girlfriend!) He can gain confidence in these environments before venturing out to meet women in other environments on his own.
Hey Bill
Great advice on going to different places to meet people and I have to agree with what your ‘survey says’ personality is so important.
I also think that whoever you are you should have self esteem which means- yes!- you think ‘you are the prize’ and that you deserve a partner who sees you as such.
Marni
Im 50/50 on this but here’s why..
I have to agree with skw in that personality isn’t the defining factor… it is looks… for both genders! Girls will judge a guy as to his personality also because personality is very important to women and a guy with ok looks can get the girl he wants but like many have said he does have to work harder for it to happen… and thus the outcome when he does succeed is so much more rewarding! I agree it isn’t fair for men because we for the most part have to initiate the first move, take all the risk and generally put ourselves out there and then a girl decides if we fit her “ideal” type. And when a girl does approach a guy first it’s usually a guy they find they are REALLY attracted to and then via for his attention by putting themselves in his general vicinity and then again waiting for him to make the first move 9/10 times.
But for all of this there are an equal number of girls if not more who think it is unfair because guys judge woman based on looks way more then personality and because they are not seen as attractive by men they get little attention. They watch their friends get all the guys and wish that for once a guy would approach them for a change.
What I don’t understand about this is if these girls want a guy why don’t they just appraoch the guy themselves instead of waiting Marni? I mean we as men are told to go after what we want but why won’t women do the same.. that is what I think is what most men find so frustrating about women… they refuse to take action… gender roles have changed…. as guys have changed so must women. What’s your thoughts on this side note?
So then what do so of these women do.. they get plastic surgery done on them to make themselves more appeaing to men instantly without changing their personality, provided she has financial backing to do so of course. While men have to overhaul who they are as people which is much harder to do to become more successful with the opposite sex because you are changing your core as a person which can be a very long and hard process, but none the less skw it must be done if what you are doing isn’t working now. If you think it’s a disadvantage that a girl has to spend money to attract men where as a guy has to spend time to cultivate himself and spend no money, then the flipside to this is that if a girl wants to have sex she can more readily find a partner where as if a guy wants sex he may have to pay for it… ie pay a woman for her time….
As kids growing up it was the cute boys (who were quite often also the most popular) that got all the attention from ALL the girls and that shaped their personality and gave them what they needed to be successful with women later on in life…. I was not one of these guys. I was a chubby kid with a great personality. I got along with everyone, girls and guys alike but was never seen as attractive by the girls in my class the way that some of my friends were. As a result I never learned the finer aspects to dealing with woman on a more sexual level and still have troble today because of it. Reading and gaining knowledge in what I think I need to improve my attractiveness to women is what I keep trying to do, and as a result I’m getting better. I’ve improved a lot (not to the point where I’d like, but I’m getting there) and hopefully I’ll be able to attract the type of girl I want in my life! So I agree that guys can learn how to be more successful and change their outcome and as a result attract great women. It’s a process that each guy has to go through at their own pace.
SKW you need to be more positive about who you are. I don’t know what you are doing wrong but you have to make some adjustments in all areas of your life constantly to be successful… People can sence your negative nature and like all people they pull away from people who are negative because people don’t like to be around those who bring them down and are always complaining. Also by saying things like I can only get the fat girls to talk to me isn’t going to endear yourself to people.. you should say things like the girls I am unattracted to. Your resentment for thin attractive girls not liking you can impact your life.
Now as woman get older I think their mentality changes and they consider personality more then looks but looks still trigger their initial attraction in a person, but they tend to look for a guy with good looks and a good personality. Guys too.. but we are willing to let personality slide a little for the sake of looks where a woman will let looks slide for the sake of personality or also the size of a man’s wallet.. ie high level of income!
Both genders when first seeing someone don’t think hey look at him/her they have a great personality I wonder if he/she is cute… that doesn’t make sence. We see a person as “attractive” to us and we try to make ourselves noticed by that person, in the hopes that there is a connection and perhaps something more!
.
As far as that girl who went to a speed dating geeks vs beauties…. Here’s my take… these are the same guys she wouldn’t have dated while she was growing up, these men have become successful and as a result attract beautiful women for their wealth. While some may have looks to go along with it, most are still aqward with women. She may be right that a geek will appreciate her more then a guy who can attract a lot of women because he himself is good looking but in the end she only wants him not because she finds him attractive but because he can offer her a lifestyle. She may end up cheating on him because she’s not really attracted to him or he may end up breaking up with her because with his new found wealth and attitude the geek can now attract more beautiful women. Thus trading in the old model for a younger one. Then woman get upset and hate a man for trading them in but, how is it any different when a woman no longer likes a guy because he has changed his personality slightly and she no longer finds him attractive…. well the woman is no longer attractive to the guy and therefore desires someone more to his taste… BOTH are unfortunate circumstance but neither sex should complain because that’s how each sex behaves when it comes to attraction so it should be no surprise… just hurt feelings… which sucks!
In the end we all want to find someone that compliments and loves us for who we are.. our ever evolving selves, and unfortunately not everyone get that in the end…. which is very sad but I think life is often more cruel to men then it is to woman….
I know this is long and may have tangented off topic in some instances but after during a ton of reading and research it is what I have come to realize and see happen on a regular basis….
Hey ‘Somerandomguy’
Thanks for your thoughts and contributions on this.
I would say that both men and women need to work on themselves to be attractive, complete people. It is true that there are lots of women out there too who are frustrated by the ‘dating game’. Women are becoming more proactive at approaching men; however, I do think it’s important to accept that we’ve been socialised so that women give out signals and men approach.
As much as both sides might wish this was the other way around at times: this is the reality we’re working with. So, regardless of gender, the best thing to do is work on being an all round attractive individual who doesn’t seek out someone else to ‘complete’ them: but who just acts when a spark flies and is open to the adventure that is dating that happens thereafter.
Keep your thoughts coming,
Marni
Ya well I guess I’m the exception and not the rule then when it comes to being socialized by society.. Why… well because I don’t follow the beaten path.. I carve my own way (damn my aquarian nature…). I am happy and I love my life. I just want more woman in it… and I’m starting to benefit from the knowledge that I’ve gained and the effort I’ve put into it!
I disagree with how society teaches people to behave… for the most part. I understand the male/female differences in thinking and behaving but disagree with the stigmas placed upon people.. for example just because a girl has many different partners I don’t consider her promiscuous (which is what society would call her or the “s” word a girl never wants to be called), why because it’s a natural thing to want sex… However if a person is using someone who they know has feelings for them just to benefit themselves I find that is a low act and I have no respect for these people!
I don’t suffer from lonelyness, like many men and women do…. I actually really enjoy my freedom, maybe a little too much at times and I have zero desire to marry… because I hate the idea of it.. which puts me in a HUGE predicament because that’s what most women want… so I tread lightly on the subject when it comes up with the women in my life.
Look at a guy like George Clooney… he is not married but if you ask him if he is a happy man.. what do you think he may say???
So what this all boils down to is this, if I see someone I like I approach and see where things go.. if she’s uninterested I don’t take it personally… I move on, why because I know that the reverse can be true too… and it has. I try to be open and honest and never hurt the feelings of another person!
I think a girl should be the same… I like a little aggressiveness in a girl.. it shows me she’s interested… which I find is such a turn on to me because it tells me that she’s just as interested in me and the outcome as I am! I mean they (women) are told to go after what they want from their job and in life (you know reach for the stars so the slogan says) but when it comes to dating be passive.. Meh I don’t buy it but I understand why they do it.. and I don’t have to like it either.. just like women don’t like wussies!!
I have what I call the “IC” Factor when I judge women… who I’d like to spend time with and let into my world… looks aside… at this point..
I = Intelligence
C = Class
I find if a girl posses both of these qualities I find I am very attracted to them even IF they aren’t as attractive as another girl physically speaking!
After all I’m picky.. why because I believe I am a great guy and deserve someone who respects me, the way I’ll respect her!
Pretty simple yet awfully complicated.. I know but then again so is LIFE!!
Cheers Marni and thanks for your imput much appreciated!
Really glad to hear that you’re not taking rejection personally, and you’re pursuing your life with honesty. Definitely the best way forward!
I hope by enjoying your life and sticking to your values that you’ll naturally attract the kind of relationships you want in it
Marni
yes, it is me, i am the one who has Asperger Syndrome, but I do agree where it seems like life is more cruel to men than women in this aspect of life, the reason why is because we men are not supposed to be desperate, needy, clingy, insecure, we are not supposed to want or need a girlfriend to feel good about ourselves, for validation, to complete us, it is a sign of weakness to women unfortuneately, it’s like as if we men are not supposed to want companionship, we men have emotions, have feelings too you know, we are not robots, cyborgs, androids, etc. Plus, a lot of us men can easily, instantly become the confident strong man that women are heavily attracted to when we find out we are liked, admired by someone, like let’s say a man has low self-esteem, is depressed, frustrated because he is single, once he gets a girlfriend he will literally become the oppossite of having low self-esteem, depression, frustrated, and he can still be the protective man women want, but it’s like, women want a man who loves, enjoys being single.
Guys, THINK, that all we want from a woman is physical, because we’ve been brainwashed by this stereotype.
Personally, I look for 3 things in a woman, prioritized in this order:
1) Character [morale, ethics, standards]
2) Personality [style, conversation, interests]
3) Appearance [butt, breasts, e.t.c]
If she has #3, of course, I will feel attraction.
BUT,
it would faint compared to a woman who has 1-2 AND 3.
That pretty much sums up my attitude too.
Sure a bikini model might be a nice fantasy but in reality I would only be into her if she was on my wavelength.
I think guys (myself included) are so turned on by appearance that sometimes they drift into fantasy land and forget that it’s not the most important factor! Not for a relationship that’s going to have any longevity anyway.
Guys forget how things like “character” and “personality” can be attractive.
I think of a woman I once dated who had the sexiest voice.
It was silky and calm.
Also, where we met,-church.
And where we chose to hangout, were very classy type environments that always seemed to compliment her, like museums and seminars.
Her intelligence.
Her choice of friends.
How she wore her glasses, all of it was sexy!
Regarding character, she took very good care of her children, and I found that so, so, sexy.
Most guys ran from her because she had so many [3 kids], but I was taken away by how responsible she was, and that she managed to be so lady like.
She was big on finding your gift, “the thing God put inside you that the world can’t do without”, or so she said.
That woman was amazing!
O…and she was cute too. [A hair model for, "Hype Hair" magazine]
Hey Jamiel
I very much approve of your order of priorities: a great character is a rarer find than just a sexy appearance
Marni
All this said, this is what my suggestion to the guy would be: Tell women straight out that you have Asperger’s and that you have been working really hard to overcome this. Say to them “We all have our crosses to bare, this is mine”. And then move on to another topic.
Seriously, that this guy is putting himself out there despite this difficulty says a lot about him in terms of his character. People respect that in someone. And any social awkwardness that he displays after will be discounted with “well he has Asperger’s, of course he’s going to have some, give the guy a break”.
Hey Mike
I totally agree: just be open about it, but the less of a big deal you make of it the woman will accept it as not a big deal too.
And as I’ve already emntioned, the courage to put yourself out there is incredibly sexy
Marni
“they would rather it be due to looks or height than personality. I know this is true of myself anyway.”
See I think personality is so vague. and can’t be compartmentalized, so much of personality is tied to looks. its the reason why a skinny, glass wearing, nerd.. well, acts nerdy…
or a big wrestler with muscles popping out of every corner acts.. .well tough..
I think for me what turns women off is that I get shook when having to make the decision to move it to physical relationship, I naturally get shook because I dont know how she’ll react, and I’m afraid of what might happen.
so I panic and get nervous and I guess that “turns her off” The only way to not panic is to get more experience, so how do I get more experience without getting scared all the time? So there’s a catch 22.
That’s why advice like, “go out there and get more experience” to me, is pretty much useless.
This actually quite a useful post, because it’s honest and you’re expressing feelings.
Getting experience here is scaleable. It’s not all or nothing, ie you don’t just touch the women you want to get physical with and only when you want to get physical. Dip your toes in the pond by just using touching in day to day conversation. Build it up over time. If you are comfortable with what you’re doing it takes a lot to make a woman uncomfortable,
I know I’ve said this before, but something that really helped me be comfortable touching women was dance classes. I’ve actually spent a lot of this evening practicing tango lunges with some lovely young women. This involves holding her chest against yours in a ballroom hold, lunging back on your left foot so the inside of her right thigh is pushed up against yours. Then from this pose twisting your bodies to the left, letting her slide her left knee up your right leg. All whilst keeping eye contact from an inch or two away.
Makes touching a woman on the arm in casual conversation ever so slightly easier…
“This involves holding her chest against yours in a ballroom hold, lunging back on your left foot so the inside of her right thigh is pushed up against yours. Then from this pose twisting your bodies to the left, letting her slide her left knee up your right leg. All whilst keeping eye contact from an inch or two away.”
All this is contextual.
Porn stars have sex with each other, with no emotional risk. It’s all about emotional risk.
Have you ever gone and done it? Or is this you sitting back in your chair thinking again.
Usual pattern with skw. Someone says to him “Here is something that worked for me.” And the reply: “I don’t *think* that will work for me.”
Inaction.
Complaint nothing is happening.
I haven’t done that exact move you described, but I have danced with women, in a ballroom dance and salsa class.
And yes there is some sexual energy there, but again, like I said, all contextual. and the class I did was one of those “rotate” classes, and some stupid girls there always want to be with the same guy so they F up the rotation.
Here’s an idea:
I think you giving me a check for $5314.35 will help you with women. Oh. you don’t *think* so? well typical Parkey response, have you tried it? why don’t you just try it and see?? Oh’ you’re using logic to determine “how will giving $5314.35 to a random person on the internet help me with attracting women” well boo! logic is bad!
No, that’s just called being dumb.
By all means carry on being a martyr to your narrow-mindedness. I was only trying to help.
why dumb? aren’t you expecting me to believe you without any logical/factual backup?
I told you I’ve done it before.
What you’re doing is looking for an answer you like. One that doesn’t break your model of the world or require you to step outside your comfort zone.
I don’t think you’ll ever find it.
Quasimodo and Esmerelda from the Hunchback of Notre Dame
SKW need’s to stop debateing against the law of nature and start really trying to understand woman and himself, and it will all fall into place. BE A MAN! know what you want. figure out how to be that masculine, confident, comfort inspireing, fun charactor, who’s a sexy mofo. and you’ll land the girl for you.
It’s funny b/c I thought about the original question for a moment, “is it FAIR or UNFAIR that women prefer personality over looks?”. So I went out and found out what fair means from google:
- In accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.
- Without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.
And this is “unfair”:
- Not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice.
- Unkind, inconsiderate, or unreasonable
What’s interesting is that both of these definitions seem to revolve around a set of rules that’s known to all players. So if we, men and women, are the players and dating is the game, what are the rules? what is the JUSTICE we’re striving for we can claim preference for personality or for looks violates?
@skw, men noticing women’s looks more than personality is not shallow, we just care more that our kids look good ^_^
There is no fairness, there is no justice. There are no norms.
As for what the rules are, read up, and more importantly, OBSERVE what goes on around you. If, for example, I tell you that women are attracted to nice guys, and you observe them getting hot for sociopaths, decide for yourself which is more believable and plan accordingly.
Same goes for the advice you get here and elsewhere. Use the advice that works best for you and fits your style; there is no one-size-fits-all approach.
Don’t beat yourself up Marni that this guy doesn’t get the message. His struggles with ASD must make it hard for him to empathize with others at times. He needs to learn how to deal with his ASD before getting involved seriously with a woman, who may or may not be able to handle who he is. Be grateful that you have helped many men and women find lasting relationships!
LOL it is so funny how this turn out well let me tell you guys and to you Marni oh you know that i love you Marni don’t you ok here is the thing i guess all you are wrong and maybe Marni to cuz she is teaching to turn yourself into what women want to but let me tell you no no no no it is not like that let see this if you guys change but for yourself like how you want to see yourself and start to do it pice by pice till you get there you will have the confidence you want and you will attract women without you trying. it will happend automatic and once you start to change yourself you will feel great cuz it is for you not for no one else love yourself and make yourself the best you can then you would not need to try to be cool cuz you will be cool automatic. and women will noticed but all what we do is we try to be cool ,we try to learn how to attract women , we try to make them look at us and let me tell you and you guess right really women do not care about looks? let see really have you ever see a fat bellybeer guy with a really great woman? no way i have see a millions fat guys but with really fat girls now if you have dout ask Marni and well she never i guess aploade a picture of her husband does she have a fat balliebeer husband but just with confidence no way? put this way if you are very good in Martial Artsthen you automatic have the confidence to deffit any oponent but if you are not then you do not have the confidence ever if you try to have that confidence. Im a 38 years old latinsexyman!!! and i had a girfriend that was 23 so after a 2 years relationship she gone why cuz she always in her head that i was to old for her no matter how confident im there was nothing to do about it you can’t change ppl in what they are into or not got that and really women gone cuz them or cuz us? she told me something that i will never forgot she said she was in love the guy she once meat mean me i asked why she said cuz he like me, he care about me, and he was happy to see me. then when i checked myself in all my relationship always happened that i im the one who loss the atraction towar them first not them im the one i started to change and wanted new adventures and guess what they notice and feel. like us if you come close to a woman and she push you away always will you notice? of course you will. ok guys take care and marni remember only the woman that i would want is you cuz i can’t have you
Sometimes,you just never know what women are attracted to, could be looks,could be personality, they can be very selective when it comes to these things especially looks. That is the female nature for you.
Hey Antonio
I actually think it’s rarely any one thing in isolation: women often take time to become attracted to a guy, and that involves a lot of factors. Confidence, strength of character and integrity usually rank highly though!
Here’s a TOTALLY DIFFERENT perspective on whether it is FAIR that women are more attracted by personality than appearance.
Bare with me here!…
EVOLUTION CREATED US ALL.
So looking at the (much) bigger picture, the “game”, as people often refer to it, of attracting the opposite sex is largely determined by the way in which evolution has created us.
EVOLUTION DETERMINES WHAT MALES AND FEMALES FIND ATTRACTIVE and it has done this through survival of the fittest.
For example,
Any woman in the history of the evolution of humans who had (through genetic variation) a BETTER ability to choose a strong, successful male by analysing his behaviour MORE accurately would have a greater chance of reproducing and parenting the children through to adulthood with the help of her strong man. So her children will more likely survive and they will have increased probability of carrying the genes that made the mother better at analysing males. The process continues.
Confidence, strength of character, social prowess, the ability to make a woman feel safe etc are all examples of the best indicators a woman can look at to make a judgement about how solid a man will be as her partner.
If women hadn’t evolved to analyse men like they do, we would have undergone what in this context could be called “survival of the weakest”! And we would all be a less well developed, less advanced species.
So ultimately what I’m saying is EVOLUTION has determined the “RULES OF ATTRACTION” and EVOLUTION also created US. So if you want to suggest the rules aren’t fair you’d best realise that without the rule maker, you wouldn’t even exist!
BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT YOU’VE GOT!
Hey T Ruth
This is an interesting point: I believe yes both nature and nurture have got us to where we are.
This is why it is so important to understand the way men & women behave, and to get comfortable with our differences rather than saying simply ‘life isn’t fair’.
By doing this we all get closer to having better relationships all round
Marni
Hi Marni,
Yeah, nurture certainly plays a role too as you said.
I think you would probably agree that because most people don’t really understand how attraction works, there are a lot of people giving bad advice. ie. bad nurturing. Albeit well-intentioned.
I also agree that it is important for men and women to understand each others perspectives so they can get along more smoothly with each other. If we’re honest, hardly anyone really tries very hard to put themselves in the shoes of the opposite sex!
I have often wondered why this isn’t part of the curriculum at school? Then we would be actively improving the nurtured aspects of all our social developments to make the world a more chilled-out, understanding place!
It sometimes seems to me that people purposefully don’t teach it in schools because they think it is somehow wrong to teach it and it should all come naturally!
Maybe people just didn’t have a grasp of all this male-female perspective stuff until quite recently.
Hey T Ruth
yes it would be useful to be more open about the reality of attraction. I totally agree a lot of well intentioned people give terrible advice because they are well intentioned! And unwilling to be honest- In my video http://www.winggirlmethod.com/offers/whats-inside-a-womans-mind/ I try to get to the reality of what women want. It’s not always what ‘bad nurture’ would have you expect!
Marni
“EVOLUTION DETERMINES WHAT MALES AND FEMALES FIND ATTRACTIVE and it has done this through survival of the fittest.”
then how do you explain the 50% divorce rate and the fact that most relationships suck eggs?
I am so glad that women do not prefer looks over other personality traits. Showsthat they are far more mature and smart than men who go by superficial factors like face, colour of skin, body shape of women. Liked your responses to man’s mail, Marni
@Rajnish
“I am so glad that women do not prefer looks over other personality traits. Showsthat they are far more mature and smart than men…”
we just care more about how our children look like
@skw
“then how do you explain the 50% divorce rate and the fact that most relationships suck eggs?”
evolution cares not for happy marriage, but for surviving offspring. Males and females find qualities that make their offspring better, and better off, attractive
Well he is absolutly right even though he is autistic,the guy has a point here about female attraction triggers,why are all the augly guys getting the women and the handsome guys are still single, it all has something to do with how he makes her feel in the moment,and women will tell you themselves they want a man with confidence and dont care about looks,i myself have tried very hard to attract women with my good looks and it doesnt work, if i dont have the confidence to make her feel comfortable,they would just blow you off and keep going. so there you have it,your questions is and my answer is i have to agree yes i find the female attraction trigger personality and not looks,and women have change over the years to some point they are not what they use to be.
“I am so glad that women do not prefer looks over other personality traits. Showsthat they are far more mature and smart than men who go by superficial factors like face, colour of skin, body shape of women. Liked your responses to man’s mail, Marni”
I think it’s so ironic your name is Rajnish and you posted a message like this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_(Bhagwan_Shree_Rajneesh)
“evolution cares not for happy marriage, but for surviving offspring. Males and females find qualities that make their offspring better, and better off, attractive”
You don’t think surviving offspring depends in some fashion on an internal state of well being?
“evolution cares not for happy marriage, but for surviving offspring”
WhiteTiger is bang on with this comment.
If you don’t understand why (skw) my best advice is to politely suggest you read “The Selfish Gene” by Richard Dawkins. (It’s a fantastic book.)
With a firm grasp of evolutionary genetics WhiteTiger’s statement will make total sense to you.
Yeah, sure “surviving offspring depends in some fashion on an internal state of well being” but it doesn’t rely solely upon it.
The fact that we all have flaws and imperfections (including in our relationships with each other) is not a good argument against evolution!
Human’s will never evolve to a state of perfection.
But we will always behave as evolution has designed us to behave.
“f you don’t understand why (skw) my best advice is to politely suggest you read “The Selfish Gene” by Richard Dawkins. (It’s a fantastic book.)”
I’ve read it.
The point I’m making is, if women are assessing their men based on:
“Confidence, strength of character, social prowess, the ability to make a woman feel safe etc are all examples of the best indicators a woman can look at to make a judgement about how solid a man will be as her partner.”
yet most marriages fail, there is seriously something wrong with their evaluation process.
I’m not trying to argue that women are PERFECT at evaluating men.
I’m just saying that they do TRY to evaluate men.
And if they didn’t, the rate of marriage-failure would probably be even HIGHER.
It is too simplistic to say “there is seriously something wrong with their evaluation process”. Marriages and relationships can break down for thousands of reasons. Not JUST because women don’t evaluate men well enough.
Women do their best to avoid chosing bad partners but they can’t predict the future!
“I’m just saying that they do TRY to evaluate men.”
That’s a fair statement, I mean both sexes try and evaluate each other, my point is, no one is more “mature” than the other, or “sound” than the other.
“…my point is, no one is more “mature” than the other, or “sound” than the other.”
I’ll stipulate to that, and I think the notion that women are somehow more mature by preferring personality more than looks is rooted in the media and upheld by second rate minds :-#
“more than looks is rooted in the media and upheld by second rate minds :-#”
second rate minds that just happen to inhabit female heads… most of them.
In a way women are actually asking for a whole lot more, if we’re going from this evolutionary perspective, they’re asking a guy to give up his life, a guy’s asking for what… a night of communal, shared pleasure? (I agree the guy should care about her pleasure too – and not treat her like an inflatable doll. I care about her pleasure, just don’t have any experience in how to actually deliver it)
You make a lot of assumptions about how women feel and think. If there really are women like this I’ve not met them.
“In a way women are actually asking for a whole lot more, if we’re going from this evolutionary perspective, they’re asking a guy to give up his life…”
It’s an interesting take on evolutionary rolls, but there’s two things one should take into account:
1) monogamy is seen among some species of animals, including apes. One of the biggest advantages to monogamy is it gives the couple relative immunity to STIs
2) A polygamous society does not imply a free for all orgy. In a polygamous society (such as the ones gorillas live in), many males go without having sex EVER. If we still allow marriage in a polygamous society (which some cultures have/had), more men may suffer than women. In his book, The Red Queen, Matt Ridley points out ‘Which woman would not rather be John Kennedy’s third wife than Bozo the Clown’s first?”
So the current setup in western culture of one man-one woman, serves men just as much as women (and it does indeed serve women).
“second rate minds that just happen to inhabit female heads… most of them.”
You’re either hanging out with the wrong crowd, or confusing media for real people. Either way, this is FALSE
“You’re either hanging out with the wrong crowd, or confusing media for real people. Either way, this is FALSE”
So let me get this straight, is it your contention that the majority of women out there do not believe that they are more “mature” when it comes to relationships?
Here’s another Wayne Gretzky quote:
“The only way a kid is going to practice is if it’s total fun for him… and it was for me.”
What if approaching women isn’t fun for someone? Rather it’s a job prescribed by society, because “thats the way things are” ?
How do you make it fun?
as great as Wayne Gretzky was, I think winning was much more fun for him than practicing or losing…
If you’re not having fun approaching women, that’s one thing. However, the fact that it isn’t fun does not mean it isn’t worth it. Nobody promised it’s gonna be fun all the time. Gtezky was a great hockey player, but he probably worked his ass off. Michael Jordan is a great basketball player, and he has his famous quote about losing. Schwarzenegger was a body builder and an actor and he talks about working hard and experiencing pain in some of his books/documentaries.
If Gretzky had “total fun” during his career, he’s one lucky man, but I can promise you approaching, dating and learning, what is now sometimes called, Venusian arts is NOT gonna be fun for a great deal of time, but it’s worth it for some people.
I disagree. I say that it’s enormous fun; more fun than I’ve ever had before. You need to make yourself uncomfortable certainly, because otherwise you’ll never grow your comfort zone, but something is wrong if you aren’t having fun.
Would you want to be with someone who is unhappy all the time? Or worse, needed something from you constantly in order to be happy?
Bring the fun with you.
WhiteTiger (are you named after the bad guy in rumble in the bronx?, anyway)
I agree with you, it isn’t going to be ‘fun’ I think the point is, wayne took pleasure EVEN in the pain. He was kind of a sadist of sorts.
I don’t know, I only brought this topic up because some people like to put up a quote that says “you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take” which is completely true, you do. but that assumes you’re doing something that makes more of your shots go in. simply taking shots and missing them all the time doesn’t help anyone, certainly not the rangers and certainly not wayne gretzky.
Now to address this point:
“Or worse, needed something from you constantly in order to be happy?”
Don’t you think women fall into this category ALL the time? Look at any okcupid profile all the women say they need to interact with their significant other at least once a day. Isn’t that them asking for something constantly in order to be happy?
Why do we as men have to come into it with pure self-reliant happiness and women get to come into it with a shopping list of things and get every single one?
SKW, I just recently posted a response to you in two consecutive messages, but they are located about one-fourth of the way down from the top of this thread.
Have you noticed and read my response?
—Boydnar
nope, probably not.
how bout you summarise down here?
Wow amen to all that, really glad there is proper dialogue going on. Im interested, Parkey, have you found in your having fun (because it is CLEAR from your posts that you are having the time of your life and in doing so skyrocketing your success) that no woman rejects you anymore solely on the basis of looks. Or does this still happen?
I personally have aspergers and I actually find it more insulting if a woman rejects me on looks (ie. the things I cant control) than personality (the things I supposedly can).
I suppose that in reality you have to look hot to have a clear road to victory and be smooth and overtly sexual(like Barcelona 2006-2011 – forget the Spanish league table this season, that spoils the analogy) but if you look okay, you have to work hard and play a different sort of game (like Greece 2004 or Italy 2006) (which involves more fun behaviour, disqualifying statements, etc). and I dont like to have to play that way and scrap for every bit of success the hotter guy gets on a plate, Id rather play smooth sexy football in the game of attracting women – who wouldnt?n Yes this is an its not fair moan/acknowledgement, yes theres probably nothing we can do about it.
I know a lot of nice girls who simply cant help they want the hottest man physically – this is not even their fault.
i guess people stopped commenting on this blog post?
Of course she doesn’t tell you how to do it…she tells you how to do it in her products, which as you said, you refuse to buy. She’s just being general in her blogs, Her products is where you learn how to do all those things. I know, I have them all.
Usually when you give a sample of a product, it’s representative of the entire product.
Ie. you get a sense of how the product will work with and for you.
I have no sense of that here.
skw–I would say that this is what a lot of guys feel–if a woman wasn’t into them, they would rather it be due to looks or height than personality. I know this is true of myself anyway.
To illustrate: I am 5’8″ with a fairly compact build. Some women want to be with a physically big guy to feel feminine, and so they are less likely to be into me. It is somewhat disappointing but I’m cool with it. I would feel more rattled if a woman was into my looks but my personality turned her off.
I’m personally not sure if women are more “mature” when it comes to relationships. See, as men are attracted by looks, women are attracted by “chemistry”. And it has caused them to make some horrible decisions. And yes, we men have lost interest in a great-looking woman when she shows that she is acting in a low character way.
See? You have a negative answer for everything.
It’s dating advice not a video game demo.
How can you judge something, you don’t even have or tried yourself?
You’re awfully closed minded.
SKW, do I understand correctly that you are very unsatisfied with your dating life, but that you have refused to buy any of Marni’s products????? And that refusal is because you have “no sense of that here?”
And do I further understand that you come on her various blog pages complaining about the nature of women’s preferences and the unfairness of it all . . . but you STILL refuse to buy Marni’s products?????
I gotta tell you man, if that’s the case then YOU REALLY PISS ME OFF! I mean I don’t like having my time wasted or my intelligence insulted. Got it?! It is nothing less than INSULTING for you to come on here and tell us all the reasons why you have it so hard in the dating scene and how life is so unfair . . . WHILE YOU REFUSE TO DO THE MOST OBVIOUS THING THAT COULD HELP YOU!!!
You have the audacity to come on MARNI’S website and utilize HER bandwith and HER harddrive space and then tell us that you reject HER products because you aren’t convinced that SHE has anything to teach YOU?????
I’m actually so phuquing PISSED right now I could chew frickin’ NAILS.
There’s nothing like sticking your nose up in the air with smug self-righteousness — even as you shoot yourself in the foot!!! And that’s what you’re doing. Your smugness is resulting in self-sabotage. Now, while I think a lot of self-sabotage originates from the subconscious mind and is largely involuntary, YOUR particular brand of self-sabotage is willfully self-inflicted. And I don’t really have a lot of patience for smug jackasses who ruin their own future and possibilities out of SHEER SMUGNESS.
You can’t seem to pry a few dollars out of your tight-ass wallet to buy Marni’s products, but OH MY GOD can you come on her website and BITCH and MOAN and PISS and COMPLAIN
. . . and come up with every reason and rationalization as to why ALL of your dating problems are because women are the way women are!!!!!
WHAT
THE
FLOCK
?????
Frankly, I’m not interested in anything
*YOU*
have to say about ANYTHING regarding women and dating anymore, and I won’t give a FLYING COWPIE about your opinion until you’ve bought ALL OF MARNI’S VIDEO PRODUCTS and have viewed them NO LESS THAN TEN TIMES EACH.
Got it, YOU DWEEB?????
Either man-up and do the unthinkable by prying a few dollars out of your own tightwad hand to get her products, or go to some other website — one designed for self-sabotaging LOSERS who still think they know it ALL and refuse to recognize expertise in others when they see it.
YOU NEED HELP . . . and your conceited, miserly refusal to pay a small sum of money for the BEST help available is infuriatingly and insultingly FRUSTRATING to any logical person who makes the mistake of reading your posts.
If I knew where to find you I’d grab you by the back of the collar and KICK YOUR CHEAP-SHIT WHINEY ASS for a quarter of a mile [visualize a Popeye cartoon].
I have some of David Shade’s products and I’ve listened to them DOZENS and HUNDREDS of times to reshape my knowledge and beliefs because 1) I readily admit when I need help, and 2) I recognize expertise in others when I see it. It was through David Shade that I was introduced to Marni and now I have some of her products — EVEN THOUGH I DON’T HAVE DATING PROBLEMS.
Either BUY HER PRODUCTS or go PISS AND MOAN somewhere else — you parsitic PISSANT.
AFTER you’ve bought and THOROUGHLY INTERNALIZED Marni’s products THROUGH REPETITION, I — may I say “we,” guys? — will be very happy to entertain your thoughts and problems in the dating world.