Marni's Wing Girl Method > Blog > How To Approach Women > How To Avoid Being Creepy Around Women

How To Avoid Being Creepy Around Women

 May 28, 2012

Check out the 1st video, in my new video series for AskMen.com.  The series is called “ASK HER” where I ask other beautiful, sexy women to give their opinion on a topic I have selected.  This week, I tell you How To Avoid Being Creepy Around Women!

Check it out:

I Want To Know What You Think!

Write a comment or a question below and tell me if you think this video was helpful.

If it was, please make sure to LIKE it and share it with others!

  • Imran

    Hi Marni. Helpful information, appreciated.

    One point of feedback: rather than bringing those other women on the video (who have nothing concrete or straight forward to tell/inform), also do more solo videos/audios of just yourself teaching such important points.

  • Kent

    One of your best videos yet. Helpful tips that are doable now.

  • Kevin

    I love how you included other women’s opinions and not just your own.

  • Fox

    Loved the direct info Marni, BTW…you’ve never been Hotter in a video. As a man, I’m getting there with a little help from my friends and You are at the Top of the list of all time most helpful girls I know. How do you do it? Fox =^^=

  • david

    I like the video.

    I am sign up for one of them online dating site. and this very pretty women wrote to me and ask me out on a date. she wants to go to a baseball game. I was wondering if this is a good idea? I have neaver dater a very beautiful woman what do i say to her and talk about.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey David

      I think that could be a fun date! You could check out the game, and then afterwards over a drink or a cup of coffee you have soemthing already to talk about

      Good luck!

      Marni :)

    • Max

      Sounds like she is an actual fan if she is suggesting it. And if YOU are really into baseball then you are into stats. But DO NOT try to talk stats with a woman. You will bore her to tears and that will let her know that you don’t understand her. If you’re going to talk baseball to her then talk about the individual players; their trials and tribulations. And if you’re not a fan, then ask her who are her favorite players and let her tell you about them. And make sure to root for them specifically. Show some emotion whenever something happens in the game so it looks like you’re actually interested. Baseball games are slow and tedious with lots of dead time. So be ready to talk. This will be your acid test.

      • Marni Wing Girl

        Hey Max

        this is great advice! It is definitely better to chat to your date about your favorite players and why the game means so much to you: stats are so boring unless you’re a huge fan of the game!

        Thanks

        Marni :)

  • Tad

    so good marni.

    it seems like creepy is often about being in an in in between place. like if i don’t look at or approach a girl – not creepy. If i just approach her directly – likely not creepy. But if I sooooort of approach her, linger, walk closely behind her without saying anything, ask her what time it is and don’t fully commit to the interaction but don’t leave then I’m in this murky in between place – and that feels creepy.

    I think creepiness is also about veiled intentions whereas slimy is about me objectifying someone.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      I agree, “I think creepiness is also about veiled intentions whereas slimy is about me objectifying someone.”

      You’re a guy it is ok to state what you’d want. As long as you don’t objectify a woman being open and relatively direct usually works best

      Marni :)

  • Tad Hargrave

    CREEPY, REALLY CREEPY, STALKER and RAPIST:

I’d say this.

The principle of all of these is the same. The signals or desires of the woman (in this case) being ignored by the man. At first, his advances are covert and so are her signals. Then her signals become more and more overt and explicit – but so do his advances.

Of course I’m not saying that all creepy guys will eventually rape a woman or that awkwardness is a seed that ultimately sprouts a rapist or that all men lack empathy.

But I would say this – in the United States 25% of women will be raped and another 19% will have to fend of a sexual attack.

I would say that men’s lack of understanding about how to interact with women and genuinely attract women (and resulting increase of sexual frustration) is a part of the reason why rape is so high.

I would say that most men will stop at the really creepy level and not go any further.

I would say that most people who are stalkers probably wouldn’t identify as that.

I would say that there’s an important distinction to be drawn between creepy and awkward. The awkward guy (assuming he’s not ‘cool’ awkward but ‘uncomfortable in my own skin and clueless’ awkward) is not scary. He’s just a drain and no fun to be around. You have to expend energy in protecting him and guiding him. If you have any heart at all, you put on your kid gloves with this kind of a person. They’re usually perceived as ‘sweet’ and ‘adorable’ but just . . . awkward. People feel bad for not wanting to hang out with this kind of person but they often still don’t. Depends on the situation and people involved and the manner of the relationship. The point is – awkwardness can be a bit draining but it’s no threat. A woman won’t feel scared to be alone in a room with him.

Creepy IS a threat. Women do not want to be alone in a room with a creepy guy. He’s hiding something. The awkward guy is probably pretty sweet and honest (or at least transparent). The creepy guy is opaque. You can tell that he’s not showing all of his cards. When my cousin was leered at by a creepy older guy from a restaurant she immediately started walking faster to get away from him.

Awkwardness can be shy, bashful, clumsy, loveable and utterly forgiveable. Possibly even endearing.

Creepiness is not.

And finally I would say that whether or not this is all literally and factually true that I think (and I’m open to women telling me otherwise) that this is the emotional reality for many women. It may not be true – but it is how it feels to many women. 

If a guy gets too creepy – she feels unsafe – she removes herself from the situation. At first she wants to leave because she’s bored, then it escalates into “i’m tired of mothering this poor man” and then it moves into, “I feel really uncomfortable around him . . .” and that discomfort is a low level of ‘threat’ or lack of safety.

  • MT

    David – do it.

    She obviously has some sort of interest as she asked you out. Just be confident, calm, and respectful. Be in the moment and listen to what she is saying. Respond to what she is to keep the conversation flowing, naturally. I have learned that ladies like and want good guys. They don’t want nice guys. They are looking for someone that knows who they are and has their own life and Let some of your life out but don’t brag. If you have a pastime you like such as hiking, running, sky diving, or what ever Someone that can set boundaries and won’t be walked over.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      A great definition here of what makes an attractive guy :)

  • clyde

    i noticed that the women talking in the cubicle were hard to understand because of the echo in the cubicle. they should be out of that cubicle if they want us to not be distracted by the echo and they should talk a little plainer. i also noticed when Marni was talking that she was hard to understand as talking too fast for me and the background noise (drums?) were too much of a distraction as they were too loud just as they do in most tv drama shows. the background noise makes it so you can’t hear what is being said. TOO MUCH BACKGROUND DISTRACTION. I think i heard Marni say something about distraction but couldn’t tell because of background distraction. i listened twice and it could be made into a very informative video. maybe a text below the video would help.

  • Jeff

    This production is very well done…’high-dollar’ quality!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Thanks Jeff :)

  • MT

    David – do it.

    She obviously has some sort of interest as she asked you out. Just be confident, calm, and respectful. Be in the moment and listen to what she is saying and respond to keep the conversation flowing, naturally. Keep eye contact but don’t stare. Smile!

    Ladies worth your time are looking for and want good guys. They don’t want nice guys who can be pushed over. They are looking for someone that knows who they are and has their own life/passions. Someone not afraid to stand up for themselves or her yet is not an ass.

    Read through Marni’s site and you’ll see that what I’m saying is true. Also remember, ladies are just as nervous as we are when it comes to dating. The key for us guys is to be able deal with this nervousness with a calming confidence.

    I hope this makes sense and good luck on your date.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey MT

      I think is so true “ladies are just as nervous as we are when it comes to dating” and it’s really worth baring in mind. Women don’t ahve all the answers, fumble over their words and act in a goofey way around guys they like all the time.

      Marni :)

      • skw

        Does this mean if they’re direct and to the point, they don’t like you?

        • Cheeky Mary

          When I’m really nervous I act direct and to the point. It makes me less girly and therefore I feel it doesn’t let on how much I like the guy. If she’s around you, she likes you. Be really sweet yet strong (that means show her you are really nice but you are fine without her) and then back off by physically moving away (be polite). If she’s around you again, there’s your answer.

          • Marni Wing Girl

            Great advice Mary.
            Marni :)

  • Bruce

    A very helpful video. Thank you.

  • Terry

    Overall an excellent and informative video, my only critique….why do women consistently say “just be yourself” then proceed to give you a long list of do’s and don’t's ,. Basically saying ” you’re not acceptable being yourself”.
    Or, maybe that little conundrum should be the subject matter of Ms. Marni’s next video…..

    • Athirson

      because the advice “just be yourself” is complete BS. The type of advice people give when the want to help but have absolutely no clue as to how. Indeed, the worst advice ever given.

      You must ignore that canard if you want to get anywhere.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      I think when guys are themselves, their best selves and are relaxed around women it comes across great: I think what these women were picking up on is when guys feel a little nervous and their actions come across as creepy, even though that’s totally not what the guy intended.

      I hope that clears things up a little.

      Marni :)

      • skw

        Marni,

        I agree, the nervousness comes from the thought of “I hope she likes me”

        As for being yourself, me being myself involves talking about movies, starwars, martial arts, also not giving 2 sh*ts about fashion, or style, rather dressing “normal”

        I’d happily discuss these things freely, but experience has shown that women haven’t responded to them. (at least not the women that I’ve been physically attracted to)

        Hence the conflicted advice of “be yourself” and “change yourself to attract women”

        Whats the difference between ‘be yourself’ and ‘be your best self’ ?

      • Urusigh

        Yeah, I’m confused. What is “best self” supposed to mean? I can’t simultaneously display every good quality I have. If I’m still at the stage of making the approach, I have no basis yet to know which of my completely genuine qualities the woman will appreciate.

        The “me” that I like best and am most comfortable with is a beta personality, the #2 man, resident expert on everything and supporter extraordinaire, not the alpha “leading man” personality that so many keep telling me is necessary to attract women. I have found this side of me to generally be a direct drop into the friendzone. So what’s the answer when “be yourself” and “be alpha” are mutually exclusive?

  • Andy

    Marni,
    Your tips are great. But the women in the video were not really helpful. In general they just stated obvious generalities.

  • Parkey

    To me the whole “be yourself” thing isn’t about who you are, it’s about whether or not you trust yourself.

    As men we don’t trust our natural ability to be interesting attractive human beings around women, so we try to take conscious control of everything about ourselves and our situation in order to try to manipulate it to secure a supply of what we want for ourselves. It’s very unattractive.

    I think that when women say “be yourself” what they mean is they just want someone who is not trying to do the above. It’s not what you say or do, it’s whether you trust that you are naturally good enough.

    • Mark

      Well said Parkey.

      A hard f¤%&ing thing to do. Because women are pretty tough on what they ask of us, so often we arent good enough in many cases.

      But yes a lot of the time the solution really is “just chill and back yourself”

    • Bond Summers

      Parkey, well said, key

    • Drew

      Parkey, you are so awesome, way to go with summing it up so well.

      I think if we were to relinquish the desire for control, be okay with screwing up, and be okay with laughing at ourselves in front of women for mistakes we make in front of them.

      My biggest peeve is that growing up, society hammers stuff away at us about how failing is BAD. If there was one thing I could go back and tell my younger self, just one, I would say “don’t worry about screwing up, if you screw up, just laugh and try again.”

      • Marni Wing Girl

        Loving the positive attitude guys.
        Wish there was a little more of it out there.
        Marni :)

    • mc

      When women say “be yourself” they’re assuming that there’s only one version of you, and they want to see it all upfront. If they don’t like it, it makes it easier for them to reject you early and save their time.

  • Darth Vader

    You are attractive, Contents are valuable, video editing fine, but the music background is too loud when talking.

  • Andrew

    I know staring is the easiest one to prevent doing, but there is more to it than that, i believe it is mostly body-language, non-verbal

  • Matt

    Cool video – clear, concise and practical. I’m not so sure about one of the other girl’s suggestions though – saying ‘great eyes’ or ‘you’re hot’, I know it could work but aren’t the best initial compliments non-physical?? Anyway I enjoyed video, thanks Marni.

  • Clayton

    Great video! It answers several questions that I had on approach angle, body angle and conversation starters. Keep all of the interviews of women. I found all of their interviews informative.

    As always, I find your teaching methods educating men to the woman’s point of view is something that I can’t get on other men’s dating advice web sites.

    I am looking forward to more videos in this series. I am a big fan of yours.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Thanks for the support Clayton: I’m glad you enjoyed the video.

      I find knowing the secret answers to what women really want so valuable in helping guys to be mroe effective at dating. Take a look at my ‘What’s Inside a Woman’s Mind’ interview selection if you haven’t already for more tips on exactly what women want.

      Marni :)

  • Ron

    Please. Stop including the vague comments of the other women in these videos. Your advice seems to imply guys should be ‘nice’… Bad move. Your other videos say you end up in FZ by not being unique… Or you and other women blow guys out of the water… Ford being boring. How does this video and your comments help guys be unique?? Please stop the contrived comments from some of the featured women… They honestly sound too full of themselves.

    • Kevin

      Ron,

      Women interviewed don’t sound full of themselves at all. Ever watch the old Superman movies? When Superman is being “Clark Kent” He’s nice and he’s a friend to Lois Lane right? Does he get Lois Lane to give him great head? No! She wants to give great head to Superman! Why? He’s strong, Confident, Powerful and a Man. If you can’t see the differance between Superman being Superman and Clark Kent, then I really don’t know what to tell you…

      • skw

        He can also fly, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, freeze water with his breath, crush coal into a diamond in his palm…

        Ie.. he is capable of doing things that is NOTICED by Lois Lane (and every other woman)

        What does that translate to in the real world (in most cases)? Good looks and money.

        In certain cases, it’s contextual to a space: ie.. a crack dealer groupie will take notice of the guy who sells the most crack.

        a poet groupie will take notice of the guy who rocks the most poetry nights and poetry jams.

        etc etc.. and so on and so forth.

        The women in the video are likely nice people, they just haven’t likely felt the level of rejection that some men have had to deal with so the most they can say is, “be yourself”

        • Marty

          “He can also fly, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, freeze water with his breath, crush coal into a diamond in his palm…

          Ie.. he is capable of doing things that is NOTICED by Lois Lane (and every other woman)”

          Clark Kent and Superman pretty much looked identical. It was just a case of glasses for one and not for the other. A super hero costume for one and not for the other.

          You can’t argue that Superman got noticed for his looks when Superman and Clark Kent looked the same. Putting on a super hero outfit is not the same as having plastic surgery or making a drastic alteration to your looks. Superman was just Clark Kent in a different outfit.

          “What does that translate to in the real world (in most cases)? Good looks and money.”

          Superman’s looks did not change. Clark Kent and Superman looked the same apart from the super hero costume. What made Superman different to Clark Kent is what Superman did not what he looked like. Superman behaved differently to how Clark Kent behaved. His behaviour got him noticed. Not his looks and not his money.

          “In certain cases, it’s contextual to a space: ie.. a crack dealer groupie will take notice of the guy who sells the most crack.”

          Well, most of the time a crack addict will be doing all they can to get money to buy crack. They’re not going to care who sells the most. They just want the stuff.

          “a poet groupie will take notice of the guy who rocks the most poetry nights and poetry jams.”

          I thought your argument was that it all translated to looks and money?

          How would the guy who rocks the most poetry nights and poetry jams be good looking/have the most money? Of course there are good looking poets but your said: “the guy who rocks the most poetry jams”, implying that their talent as a poet and how they come across to people gets them noticed.

          In short: stuff other than looks and money gets guys noticed by women.

          “The women in the video are likely nice people, they just haven’t likely felt the level of rejection that some men have had to deal with so the most they can say is, “be yourself””

          I’m not sure how this makes sense. Firstly, how do you know how many times the women in the video have been rejected?

          I know a lot of women and have many female friends and I’ve seen very attractive women struggle with their dating lives.

          Secondly, even if these women have not felt the kind of rejection that some men have felt, how does that prompt these women to give the advice of: “be yourself”?

          Is your argument basically: I think these women have not been rejected as much as some random guys have. Therefore I think they give bad advice?

          • skw

            “You can’t argue that Superman got noticed for his looks when Superman and Clark Kent looked the same. Putting on a super hero outfit is not the same as having plastic surgery or making a drastic alteration to your looks. Superman was just Clark Kent in a different outfit.”

            umm.. read what I wrote. That’s not what I was arguing. I was arguing:

            “He can also fly, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, freeze water with his breath, crush coal into a diamond in his palm…”

            “I thought your argument was that it all translated to looks and money?”

            Ok, it’s really hard to maintain composure and mutual respect when you really need to learn how to read.

            What I was saying

            -ABSENT any context, it usually comes down to looks and money. IN a general sense.

            -IN the specialized cases where women in a particular space VALUE that skill/activity MORE than looks/money, the success in that space takes over. Hence, my poetry

            “Is your argument basically: I think these women have not been rejected as much as some random guys have. Therefore I think they give bad advice?”

            In a nutshell, yes, but it’s more like, they haven’t had the experience of multiple rejections coupled with societal pressure to initiate and DRIVE everything

            hence they are incapable of giving sound advice, it’s as if I attempted to give advice on dealing with the pressures of society placing an inordinate amount of attention on the way I look. I’m not a woman and hence haven’t experienced that. my speculation can only go so far.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Ron

      These comments are straight from the featured women: and I think give a handy insight into what women are thinking. Understanding a woman’s mind isn’t the only tool you should use for improving your dating skills; you do need to work on being unique, real and direct too. But understanding a female perspective can also help to give guys out there a head start

      Marni :)

  • Kevin

    After reading a bunch of comments here that are very negative, I really don’t know what guys want to hear. Maybe Marni isn’t being specific enough? You really can’t rely on the “free advice” as a “cure all” to attract women. I see a lot of complaints from the statement “Be yourself” well for a lot of men “Be yourself” is being nervous, shy and intimidated by hot women. Men take things that are said at face value and they shouldn’t unless they are talking to another man.

  • R.J.

    Marni your the hotest.

  • Mark

    Hi Marni, great stuff.

    I think like you said above, a lot of the time men come across as creepy when they want to approach but feel nervous about how they’re going to come across. And so they linger, trying to figure out what they’re going to say – it can be quite nerve wracking for a guy to approach a bunch of strangers and the pressure to get everything just right – the right amount of eye contact, trying not to be boring, trying not to touch too much or too little, finding the balance between arrogance and confidence and knowing that if he makes a mistake on any of these things he’ll be labelled a creep.

    It’s easy to say – just approach, but if a guy just approaches without thinking about what he’s going to say (e.g. lingering for a while) he’s just as likely to blurt out something stupid or approach a woman and say “hi” and have nothing further to say.

    I guess I’m just trying to say it’s not that easy for some guys to “just approach” without lingering because the fear – like the fear of public speaking – can be powerful, and past failures hard to forget.

    However having said all that, this is great advice for guys who can get past that and have a go.

    • Laly

      Well honestly.. don’t think..
      Whenever you start thinking of what to say.. everything you are going to say will look fake and made up.. thus creepy.. that’s why opening lines usually don’t work..

      Just shut off your mind for a second, walk up to her, say hi, give a compliment on whatever it was that attracted your attention (and tell her WHY!!) and just see where the conversation goes from there. Then after 2-3 minutes, just walk away.. say you’ve got to meet up with friends or something, or perhaps a bathroom break or anything like that..

      You should NOT THINK before coming up to her..

      Or at least try to.. because.. since you’re here.. you’re probably some smart guy who keeps overthinking things..
      That means.. whenever you shut of your thinking.. you’ll still be smart enough to have a great and interesting conversation..

      In the end.. the creepiness stems from insecurity.. and that comes from thinking too much.

      Just stop thinking and start trusting your primal instincts.. I mean.. if those baboons can approach girls.. why can’t you?
      In the end.. brain beats muscle ^_~

      @2bb6d8a7ed067bbad81dcb4dd9c43f29:disqus First of all.. thank you! for all these video’s and tips! I love them ^_^ but you talk about projections/not presuming too much. For me it kinda works to approach a girl with the presumption that she’s a good friend i can have fun with..

      But what i’ve lately been getting stuck with.. is having a bunch of girls around me, but none of them really what I’m looking for.. so we keep being friends.. and that’s good.. but.. it seems so weird that some of them, even if they’re hot, are just not turning me on.. it’s kinda like.. we’re both friendzoning one another.. I’m in hers, she’s in mine.. kinda fun.. but also kinda frightful.. I mean.. Is it possible to have something like a girl overload?

      Tnx for all your help and tips! I love them

      • Marni Wing Girl

        A girl overload? Never!
        Sounds like you’re just ready to go out there a find the one ;)
        If you’re not interested it taking it further than the friend zone just becomes friendship.
        Marni :)

  • Mark

    I think other times a guy will linger because he’s waiting for a good time to approach – if the group are all having fun and talking together it can be intimidating to suddenly butt in. You don’t want to be rude.

    I suppose at the end of the day the guys who have confidence and natural social ease will always have an easier time of it than those who don’t.

  • skw

    Here’s a question:

    Can a good looking man be creepy ?

    Here’s another question:

    If all that interests me about you is physical beauty, should I state that directly

    • Kevin

      Just be yourself

  • TheNatural

    Who gives a shit about looking creepy to a broad if you think she’s hot talk to her if not keep moving you will find another within 5 minutes

    • Marni Wing Girl

      It’s important for your self esteem and success rate. I think every guy wants to come across as his best self and see women react to him in the way that he deserves

      Marni :)

  • Marty

    “ABSENT any context, it usually comes down to looks and money. IN a general sense.”

    So I’m wrong when I say your argument is “it all translates to looks and money” but you then say that “it usually comes to down looks and money”?

    “IN the specialized cases where women in a particular space VALUE that skill/activity MORE than looks/money, the success in that space takes over. Hence, my poetry”

    But why would a skill like that only be of value within one context? A poet would have power with words and be able to express himself well romantically and sexually. That’s a pretty valuable skill in any context.

    A man/woman who has a particular skill can take it with him/her into various contexts, display it and have it valued. The value of the skill is rarely locked within one context.

    “In a nutshell, yes, but it’s more like, they haven’t had the experience of multiple rejections coupled with societal pressure to initiate and DRIVE everything”

    How do you know that to be true? Do you know the women in the video?

    We don’t know the women in the video and therefore making assumptions about the number of rejections they’ve had or not had and the pressures they may or may not have felt from society is logically flawed.

    “hence they are incapable of giving sound advice,”

    They are incapable of giving sound advice because of something you assume to be true about them but cannot prove? How does that hold up logically?

    “it’s as if I attempted to give advice on dealing with the pressures of society placing an inordinate amount of attention on the way I look. I’m not a woman and hence haven’t experienced that. my speculation can only go so far.”

    But you could still give your opinion on that subject and have your opinion on that subject respected.

    Imagine someone seeing you in a video talking about a subject. The person who watches you dismisses what you have to say because of some assumptions they have made about you. It would not be logical or sensible for them to do that.

    It’s one thing to choose not to take advice when it is offered. It’s quite another to dismiss someone’s ability to give sound advice based solely on assumptions about that person.

    I can make guesses about the women in the video and what they’ve experienced in life. But I have no authority to say that they cannot give sound advice. I don’t know the women and any assumptions I might make about them would simply be products of my own mind.

    • http://www.facebook.com/whitec.amry.9 Whitec Amry

      Too wordy.

  • creepy guy

    Is it creepy to be by yourself at a bar, club, restaurant, or anywhere to approach?

  • creepy guy

    Is it creepy to be by yourself at a bar, club, restaurant, or anywhere to approach?

    Great advise btw and video.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hi

      Being by yourself doesn’t have to be creepy: if you’re cool with what you’re doing other people will be too. At a bar people may initially be curious as to why you’re out by yourself but if you appear happy and nonchalant: other people will accept that.

      Being happy in your own company is a positive thing: just make sure you demonstrate that in appearing relaxed, friendly to strangers and enjoying yourself.

      Good luck

      Marni :)

  • skw

    “So I’m wrong when I say your argument is “it all translates to looks and money” but you then say that “it usually comes to down looks and money”?”

    Yes, do you not understand the difference between “usually” and “all”

    “But why would a skill like that only be of value within one context? A poet would have power with words and be able to express himself well romantically and sexually. That’s a pretty valuable skill in any context.”

    And how do you go from poet –> power with words –> express sexually and romantically?

    A couple pretty big logical strides there.

    “How do you know that to be true? Do you know the women in the video?”

    I don’t need to know them, I know they live in a world where they are approached more than they approach. hence the wouldn’t know what its like to get rejected multiple times and have societal pressure to keep approaching

    “But you could still give your opinion on that subject and have your opinion on that subject respected.”

    Respected insofar as it is limited.

    I wouldn’t even state an opinion and expect it to be respected unless I had some kind of experiential back up for it.

    So I respect their ability to open their mouths and emit words, how much weight I add to them is altogether a different story

    On another note, this is a REAL description from an online dating site as to what a woman wants in her “ideal guy”:

    “Cofindent but not cocky,Strong but sensitive,Have his own life,but still be attentive,Compromising but not a push over,Want children but not an Army!In shape but not like look like the hulk!”

    Talk about contradictory and hypocritical.

  • skw

    “Imagine someone seeing you in a video talking about a subject. The person who watches you dismisses what you have to say because of some assumptions they have made about you. It would not be logical or sensible for them to do that.”

    They aren’t assumptions. I’d like any of those women to stand at me with a straight face and say they know what it’s like to:

    -be rejected multiple times, and I’m talking 100s
    -live in a society where society pressures them to initiate

    I’m not saying they’re bad people, just not in a position to give sound advice. Would you ask your golf caddy for legal advice? no. you ask an experienced lawyer.

    • Ardiana the adventurer

      Hey dude. Love your opinions and some of these guys just don’t learn that your bulletproof ;P

      Legal advice is one thing but to present your case in court as a LAWYER is another. It needs more than book smarts to be an attorney. As such I’ve been starting to approach this through a different strategy. Instead of trying to dig under rocks what WORKS on women I focus on the certain things that kill the attraction for women completely. So I’ve started studying these and 1 by 1 try to weed them out from my behavior (John Alanis gives a good clear description of each is his video). That way, when I’m not doing these, I’ll know if I’m doing something right if women look at me differently. And then when I do not allow myself to do and say certain things, the things I CAN do what remain must be the right things! Takes ages to learn though…

      - AJ

  • skw

    “They are incapable of giving sound advice because of something you assume to be true about them but cannot prove?”

    Listen. Nothing can be “proven” in a scientific sense when dealing with social behavior. Based on my anecdotal experience with women, not a *single* one has ever suggested that its incumbent on the women to approach. And to me, rejection in this sense can only happen when one has APPROACHED.

    Do you think that’s just a coincidence?

    • Marty

      “And how do you go from poet –> power with words –> express sexually and romantically?
      A couple pretty big logical strides there.”

      A poet has power with words. If a poet does not have power with words, he’s in the wrong job. Poets throughout the centuries have demonstrated their skills expressing themselves both romantically and sexually. Over here in the UK we called/call one such poet: Shakespeare.

      “I don’t need to know them, I know they live in a world where they are approached more than they approach. hence the wouldn’t know what its like to get rejected multiple times and have societal pressure to keep approaching”

      You don’t know the women. You’ve got no idea how many times they’ve been approached, how many times they’ve been rejected or what pressures they’ve felt or not felt.

      As Marni pointed out to me on another page on this website, she knows many beautiful women who don’t get approached because the man has made a judgement call that he’d not stand a chance with her.

      So, women who do not get approached exist. We have no evidence that the women in the video get approached more than they approach. We know nothing about them. That is the simple and logical truth of the matter.

      “I wouldn’t even state an opinion and expect it to be respected unless I had some kind of experiential back up for it.”

      But you have no experience of the women in the video as you don’t know them. And yet you offered up opinions and assumptions about them. Does this mean we should not respect what you have to say?

      “They aren’t assumptions.”

      They are assumptions. You do not know the women in the video. You have no experience of them as people. All you can do is assume things about them. So they are assumptions.

      “I’d like any of those women to stand at me with a straight face and say they know what it’s like to:

      -be rejected multiple times, and I’m talking 100s
      -live in a society where society pressures them to initiate”

      Whether their experiences match yours does not affect the quality of their advice.

      “I’m not saying they’re bad people, just not in a position to give sound advice. Would you ask your golf caddy for legal advice? no. you ask an experienced lawyer.”

      I want advice on not coming across as a creep to women. So it makes logical sense to ask a woman’s advice.

      I want advice on how not to come across in a certain way to women. The best place to get that advice would be from women.

      In short: the women in the video are qualified to give advice on this simply by being women. They need not prove themselves to me, you or to anyone else.

      “Listen. Nothing can be “proven” in a scientific sense when dealing with social behavior. Based on my anecdotal experience with women, not a *single* one has ever suggested that its incumbent on the women to approach.”

      Whether women approach men or not is not the issue here.

      “And to me, rejection in this sense can only happen when one has APPROACHED.

      Do you think that’s just a coincidence?”

      Rejection can and does happen if the woman approaches a guy. Rejection can and does happen if a woman is approached by a guy. Doesn’t make much difference.

      We have no idea how many times the women in the video approach guys, how many times they get rejected or anything like that. And, to be perfectly honest, it does not matter. They are here to give men advice on not coming across as creeps to women and they don’t need to have had the same experiences as random guys in order for their advice to be perfectly sound.

  • skw

    “A poet has power with words. If a poet does not have power with words, he’s in the wrong job. Poets throughout the centuries have demonstrated their skills expressing themselves both romantically and sexually. Over here in the UK we called/call one such poet: Shakespeare.”

    Ok, you’re being ridiculously stubborn now. And completely missing my overall point.

    You can make that kind of argument for ANY profession.

    A toilet bowl cleaner – why wouldn’t he be able to attract the princess of bahrain? He does the job no one else wants to, he make it possible for people to partake in a basic human activity, and makes toilets clean. Why shouldn’t every woman swoon over that?

    or how bout a mafia hitman, he’s efficient, would definitely be able to defend you, loyal, those are amazing qualities, why shouldn’t every woman just melt at the sight of one.

    All you’re doing is taking some general qualities, extrapolating them, and ignoring the negatives of that profession (ie.. most poets are dead f’ing broke)

    I live in New York, guess what, most of the women here aren’t hangin around poets. They’re hangin around investment bankers that pull 500 grand a year

    “Whether women approach men or not is not the issue here.”

    Of course it is. That’s the ENTIRE issue. women giving advice on how men should approach (ie by ‘being themselves’). How much experience they themselves have with it is the heart of the issue.

    “They are here to give men advice on not coming across as creeps to women and they don’t need to have had the same experiences as random guys in order for their advice to be perfectly sound.”

    Yes and that advice is about as useful as me giving advice on how and why and in what ways a woman should dress or take care of her looks.

    A woman can certainly state her opinion about how a certain guy (or group of guys) come across to them. But 99.99999% of them are unable to give any USEFUL or ACTIONABLE advice, and use vague terms like, “that’s creepy” or “that felt weird” and when asked how can one improve, guys are only given advice such as “be yourself” which in my view…. is completely useless.

    “In short: the women in the video are qualified to give advice on this simply by being women. They need not prove themselves to me, you or to anyone else.”

    No. disagree. they are qualified to state their experience being women that due to societal privilege, are on the receiving end of being asked out. That’s worlds different than being qualified to actually give advice on how men can/should approach.

    • Marty

      “All you’re doing is taking some general qualities, extrapolating them, and ignoring the negatives of that profession (ie.. most poets are dead f’ing broke)”

      I’m not ignoring the negative of anything. I’m aware that some negatives may exist. We all have our advantages and our disadvantages, our positives/negatives & our skills.

      We can either worship those negatives and let them stop us or we can make sure we use every positive advantage & skill we have. If we argue for our limitations then they shall be our masters. If we argue for our positives and our skills then they shall release us.

      “I live in New York, guess what, most of the women here aren’t hangin around poets. They’re hangin around investment bankers that pull 500 grand a year”.

      Most of the women in New York just go out with rich bankers?

      “Of course it is. That’s the ENTIRE issue. women giving advice on how men should approach (ie by ‘being themselves’). How much experience they themselves have with it is the heart of the issue.”

      The issue here is how not to come across as creepy to women.

      “Yes and that advice is about as useful as me giving advice on how and why and in what ways a woman should dress or take care of her looks.”

      They are women and are giving advice on how best to come across to women. That’s useful advice.

      “No. disagree. they are qualified to state their experience being women that due to societal privilege, are on the receiving end of being asked out. That’s worlds different than being qualified to actually give advice on how men can/should approach.”

      I’m struggling to see how, even if what you said was true, that would disqualify these women from giving advice/make them unqualified to give advice.

      Let’s assume you’re right for a minute. These women in the video get approached by loads of guys. Surely that would mean these women would have seen the best approaches from guys and the worse approaches from guys and be able to advise guys how to do a good approach/not come across as creepy?

      Truth is though, we don’t know these women as people. We’ve no idea whether they get approached a lot, a little or not at all.

      “by the way, I think this is a complete urban myth. It makes no sense. Beautiful women are perhaps not approached by the men they want to be approached by… but that’s a different story.”

      I agree that you think it’s an urban myth. I have many attractive female friends and I’ve been out with them to clubs, bars, pubs etc. A lot of them do not get approached. I know it’s not an urban myth and I appreciate that someone who hasn’t seen it happen in real life might not believe it.

      If women get approached a lot by guys then it gives them experience getting approached and gives them material to draw on so that they can give advice to guys on how best to come across to women.

      If women don’t get approached a lot or at all then they can still give sound advice based on the fact that they are a woman and know how they would like to be approached.

      Therefore the logical assumption would be: these women in the video give sound advice & are qualified to give such advice simply by being women.

      • skw

        “I’m not ignoring the negative of anything. I’m aware that some negatives may exist. We all have our advantages and our disadvantages, our positives/negatives & our skills.”

        That’s my point, for some of us, the “negatives” are held as negatives by a general, majority of the women out there, granted not by all.

        “Surely that would mean these women would have seen the best approaches from guys and the worse approaches from guys and be able to advise guys how to do a good approach/not come across as creepy?”

        No, in my view, they wouldn’t. that’s the whole point. They are in a position to receive the information and verbally articulate (in very vague terms) how they respond to it. but it ends there.

        Same way that I’ve seen thousands of “hot women” and I can verbally state what turns me on, but I wouldn’t be able to give advice on how to get there. (beyond general points like ‘lose weight’)

        Never mind that if I *do* state such opinions it’s often “sexist” or continuing undue pressure on women, but the converse isn’t true. That’s another story though.

        • Marty

          “That’s my point, for some of us, the “negatives” are held as negatives by a general, majority of the women out there, granted not by all.”

          What are these negatives that you think are held by a general majority of the women out there?

          “No, in my view, they wouldn’t. that’s the whole point. They are in a position to receive the information and verbally articulate (in very vague terms) how they respond to it. but it ends there.”

          You seem to think (correct me if I’m wrong) that because they’re not men they can’t give advice on how guys can approach women. But your belief is that women get approached by lots of guys. If they get approached by lots of guys then they’ve experienced approaches that made them feel good and approaches that put them off guys.

          Getting feedback from women about how guys can best approach them is invaluable.

          “Same way that I’ve seen thousands of “hot women” and I can verbally state what turns me on, but I wouldn’t be able to give advice on how to get there. (beyond general points like ‘lose weight’)”

          You would not be able to advise a woman on how to become more attractive to you?

          “Never mind that if I *do* state such opinions it’s often “sexist” or continuing undue pressure on women, but the converse isn’t true. That’s another story though.”

          How would it be automatically sexist to advise a woman how to become more attractive to you? Surely that’s a matter of knowing your own desires and articulating them to the woman?

          • skw

            “What are these negatives that you think are held by a general majority of the women out there?”

            didn’t we go over these? money and looks (or lacking them)

            “f they get approached by lots of guys then they’ve experienced approaches that made them feel good and approaches that put them off guys.”

            and I don’t dispute that. but it ends there, they just know what worked and what didn’t, they have no idea about the internal mental state of the guy necessary to get there. see the difference

            “Getting feedback from women about how guys can best approach them is invaluable.”

            If the feedback was actually valuable…, that’s my point, it’s not.

            “How would it be automatically sexist to advise a woman how to become more attractive to you?”

            You don’t think there’s an over-arching sentiment in western society (definitely American) that says women are living under constant pressure of looking a certain way? or adhering to some kind of media defined view of what an “ideal woman” is ?

            ever see this movie:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gkIiV6konY

            Just for a second I’d like you to imagine a movie that highlights that we live in a society that puts pressure on men to “be masculine” “take charge” “have balls” etc etc.. wait, that’ll never get made, nor distributed.

            This like I said, is a whole ‘nother story.

      • skw

        “Therefore the logical assumption would be: these women in the video give sound advice & are qualified to give such advice simply by being women.”

        Well, I disagree there. that’s like saying a movie audience, by the virtue of being a movie audience that knows what they like can give sound advice to filmmakers about how to make movies, who to cast, what scripts to write, etc…

        which is clearly not true.

        What they can do, and where it stops is, they can say what “worked” for them, and what “didn’t work” – but most movie audiences can’t explain why or how it worked, just that it did. Same holds true here.

        • Marty

          “Well, I disagree there. that’s like saying a movie audience, by the virtue of being a movie audience that knows what they like can give sound advice to filmmakers about how to make movies, who to cast, what scripts to write, etc…

          which is clearly not true.”

          Actually, on one level that would be true. Film makers and their associates in the PR world already run focus groups, send out surveys etc to the movie going public with the intention of finding out what the public like to see in films, what makes people go to see films etc. It’s getting feedback from your target market.

          The film makers clearly think that the movie going public are qualified to give them sound advice on the making of future blockbusters because they spend so much time asking for their feedback.

          I don’t like using such a metaphor but women are, technically speaking, our target market. We want to approach them in the best way we can. Therefore it makes sense for us to get advice from women.

          Some women get approached a lot, some a little and some not at all. Yet each individual woman is still part of our target market. They can still provide sound feedback on how guys have approached them, what those guys did right, what they did wrong and how the approaches made them feel.

          That’s invaluable feedback.

          “What they can do, and where it stops is, they can say what “worked” for them, and what “didn’t work” – but most movie audiences can’t explain why or how it worked, just that it did. Same holds true here.”

          Actually a lot of movie audiences can explain why or how it worked for them. They can be very articulate on the subject and this helps the movie industry get great audience feedback.

          Film critics see films and write great long essays about what worked, what did not work and why things worked/did not work. These days anyone with a blog can be a film critic and even members of the public wax lyrical about what they thought worked in a film, what they thought didn’t work etc.

          In the case of women being approached by guys…a woman does not have to explain why a particular approach made her feel uncomfortable.

          Just that it did. If she can expand on why it made her uncomfortable, great. But the point would be: “the guy made an approach like this. It stunk. Good idea to do something else when approaching women if you want a good reaction from them”.

          • skw

            “Actually, on one level that would be true. Film makers and their associates in the PR world already run focus groups, send out surveys etc to the movie going public with the intention of finding out what the public like to see in films, what makes people go to see films etc. It’s getting feedback from your target market.”

            I’m sorry, I can’t respond to you any more. You simply don’t read.

            The focus groups give exactly what I said, feedback about what they liked and what they didn’t.

            I was talking about a general audience, film critics are usually people who’ve been involved in film to some degree.

            They give nothing in terms of the PROCESS OF achieving result, that’s for people who’ve actually made films to just “figure out”

  • skw

    “As Marni pointed out to me on another page on this website, she knows many beautiful women who don’t get approached because the man has made a judgement call that he’d not stand a chance with her.”

    by the way, I think this is a complete urban myth. It makes no sense. Beautiful women are perhaps not approached by the men they want to be approached by… but that’s a different story.

  • skw

    ““They are here to give men advice on not coming across as creeps to women and they don’t need to have had the same experiences as random guys in order for their advice to be perfectly sound.””

    Look at it this way, I can tell a woman, “yes a woman that looks like *that* makes my d*ck hard, and I wanna f*ck her brains out” but I’m completely clueless as to what she did to get to that point, because why? I’m not a woman and don’t know what she did to get there, so I’d just say, “yea, be hot like that”

  • Parkey

    Your singular lack of empathy for women never ceases to astonish me skw.

    A dance teacher once said to me “the secret of smooth dancing as a man is to know which foot your partner’s weight is on”. At the time I thought this was a bit rich considering I had enough to think about with where my own limbs were. Soon enough though, with practice, I tuned in to it and he was absolutely right.

    There’s a very very important point here. Everything you come out with skw is me, me, me. How difficult life is for you and how easy she must have it. It’s enormously selfish of you, because those women you want, regardless of how hot they are, are very much human. They all have their own thoughts and feelings. Women, even really hot women, have their own sets of issues and hangups when it comes to meeting men; desires too. You’d better start acknowledging that.

    Would you want to be intimate with someone who only cared about themself? Would you even want to be friends with someone like that? I wouldn’t.

  • skw

    “Your singular lack of empathy for women never ceases to astonish me skw.”

    I give them about as much empathy as they give me.

    “Everything you come out with skw is me, me, me. How difficult life is for you and how easy she must have it. It’s enormously selfish of you, because those women you want, regardless of how hot they are, are very much human. They all have their own thoughts and feelings. Women, even really hot women, have their own sets of issues and hangups when it comes to meeting men; desires too. You’d better start acknowledging that.”

    Hmm.. have you taken the path of selective reading? Maybe you missed when I wrote this:

    “it’s as if I attempted to give advice on dealing with the pressures of society placing an inordinate amount of attention on the way I look. I’m not a woman and hence haven’t experienced that. my speculation can only go so far.”

    Oh look at that, it’s me acknowledging that women have it more difficult in the area of looks and appearance.

    Let me ask you this, was it “selfish” of a black person to say the laws and societal constructs of the 1960s made it *harder* for him to live? or the laws made it *harder* for women pre 1950s? No. those are facts, undisputed.

    I’ve spent the better part of 15 yrs “acknowledging that” as you say, only to have a big virtual middle finger given right back at me by these very same “human” women you speak of.

  • skw

    Parkey – question to you: Do you think it’s wrong to be honest about only wanting a woman for sexual intercourse, if that’s indeed how you feel about her?

    • Parkey

      If all you want is to take sex from her I cannot imagine her responding well to that.

      And if that’s your only reason for wanting to connect with women I pity you.

      • skw

        I didn’t ask for all the extraneous commentary. Also I didn’t say anything about “take sex” As I know it, sex is a mutually pleasurable act.

        The question is: should one be honest about their desires ?

        • http://www.denisoei.com/ Laly

          Yes one should be honest about ones desires. Always.. Because.. if you want her, just for sex and she knows it.. and obliges.. chances are, you might find a really great sexual girl.. who won’t start stalking you as an obsessed deer.. and you won’t be passed of as an asshole…
          And if you’re good.. she might let her friends know.. etc.

          But.. as stated before.. you still should not objectify her.. and that is perfectly possible..

          However.. i don’t really know why i’m actually replying to something 6 months old.. oh well..

          • Marni Wing Girl

            Even so- it’s very good advice!
            Marni :)

      • skw

        Marni seems to have an opinion:

        “You’re a guy it is ok to state what you’d want. As long as you don’t objectify a woman being open and relatively direct usually works best”

        the question is, can someone only (or primarily) want a woman for sexual intercourse, and not objectify them?

  • http://goo.gl/VhkAv Get Her Into Bed

    Creepy, that is I don’t wanna be. Hahahaha!

  • Andrew

    for us Southern California residents, since I assume Marni is a SoCal resident, she would offer individual Coaching sessions in person, as in, we go out and watches we guys approach a girl and she watches us from a distance, and she can make the judgement whether we were creepy, insecure, confident, relaxed, or not, etc.

  • John

    how is it logically accurate that women are not as hung up on looks, not as attracted to looks, physical appearences as much as men are?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey John

      I do believe women are biologically programmed to be attracted to a much bigger sweep of criteria than men are: whilst many men look for physical beauty first (I think because they are checking out to see if a woman appears fertile) women assess men on a much broader range of characteristics. They’re often looking for someone to spend a good amount of time with: so whilst physical attraction is important, those long term qualities of being masculine, having great leadership and being able to be our rock is just mroe important

      Marni :)

  • Dom

    well that explains alot in my problems ha

  • Mark

    What I was saying

    Couple of comments you made, skw, that Id like to respond to:

    -ABSENT any context, it usually comes down to looks and money. IN a general sense.

    -IN the specialized cases where women in a particular space VALUE that skill/activity MORE than looks/money, the success in that space takes over. Hence, my poetry

    First is true, but remember its absent any context. With more information, some girls (not all) will be much less shallow – its too difficult without that info.

    Second is a case of where it is worth having the common interest. There are ways around it, it is tougher if not good looking, but not impossible. Your lack of looks are stopping you from having TOTAL choice. Your attitude (which is understandable but destructive) is stopping you from having ANY choice.

    “Let me ask you this, was it “selfish” of a black person to say the laws and societal constructs of the 1960s made it *harder* for him to live? or the laws made it *harder* for women pre 1950s? No. those are facts, undisputed.”

    Agreed – so much gets made of all the other -isms. Looksism is a massive issue in 2012, massive.

    • http://www.facebook.com/whitec.amry.9 Whitec Amry

      Looksism is a massive issue in 2012.

      “Looksism” has always been a massive issue. Without it there’d be no Hollywood, fashion industry, porn, beauty contests or non-issues politics – y’know, as in “look good while doing it.”

  • robertsavareid@hotmail.com

    awesome video!

    journaled.

    I don`t understand why somebody complained about you being difficult to hear!
    I`m from Norway and had no problem understanding it.

    still waiting for a price on all your products

    btw love your eyes! and your “vibe”

  • wingirls

    Hey Robert! Glad you liked the video. I can hear it as well, so I am not sure how to adjust it.

    You can check out my full product line here:

    http://www.winggirlmethod.com/category/products/

    What were you looking for specifically?

    Email me directly to get more info: marni@winggirlmethod.com

    Thanks!

  • DrDragon

    Right gain, Marni. You are really making this world a better place. :-)

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Thanks Dr Dragon :)

  • jay

    very intresting ,alright didnt know those things would be creepy, i seen a gril the other night in the pub and she looked at me and then i seen her i looked real fast,then i see hert again glance at me i thought she could of fancyed me then i should of smiled and talk to her.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Definitely Jay. Waiting around can come across as creepy, so take the initiative and approach, approach, approach! Go say ‘hi’ and see what she says.

      Marni :-)

  • sd

    Perfect opener: “you like creepy guys”

  • Alex

    Women don’t know what they want and therefore we men need to know what we want and just go for it calmly and confidently.

  • Paul

    Just Super as always and cuts thru the chase to the precise points of interests. Just excellent. Keep up the good work Marni.

    – Paul

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Thanks Paul
      Marni :)

  • Traa

    How do I get my friend (she’s a girl) to be my wing girl? She seems to like sitting back and criticizing my choices other than helping me pick out the right women and helping me talk to them.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Traa,
      Have you asked her to be your wing girl?
      Marni :)

  • http://profiles.google.com/tonofonseca777 Tono Fonseca

    Is anybody else getting the impression that this whole video is based on the presumption that men have to do all the serving while the women sit back and judge our actions? If women want “equality” then they can make an attempt to be marginally more understanding and try to give more, instead of demanding “the perfect approach, according to these tips”, and rejecting all guys who so much as dent them. The way I see it, this is too much work for too little benefit.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      And that’s entirely up to you.
      If you don’t want to do it then no one will force you.
      Marni :)

  • Silver Surfer

    Have you considered Udemy app. To boost

  • Bart

    Seriously, opening dating tips from a pregnant lady and a pretty but frumpy girl?

  • mc

    The two women saying the pick up lines they prefer is probably the best part of this video.

  • Jochen

    Good recommendations. The background music is too loud.

  • Randy

    Does anyone have any video training on body language? I hear all of this confident, relaxed body language however I’m a visual learner and have no idea what it looks like so I can model it and how to read her body language? I’m visual reading or talking is incredibly vague and frustrating!

  • Dex

    That is creepy by itself.The best way is not to appoarch this kind of women. Because they will not be strong enough to handle difficult situation(s).

  • Urusigh

    Honest question, if you walk away at the 2-3min mark, how does that not come across as having lost interest? If a girl blows out on me that quickly, particularly when everything seemed to be going well, my first assumption is going to be that I just said the wrong thing and she’s ditching me while being too polite to tell me off directly. How is it different for women?

    For that matter, how does it not seem contrived? Anything you say at that point is going to sound like an excuse (read: lie). Shouldn’t her BS detector go off with a red flag at that?

    For the real kicker, where in this little dance are you supposed to get her contact info so you can get with her some other time? Coming back after you’d walked away once seems kinda weird and she may already be gone or occupied by then.

  • Maverick

    Very good information for sure, and I too agree with Parkey’s comments. I used to do that and didn’t even know I was. Thanks Marni!