How To Compliment A Woman – The RIGHT WAY
19. Jan, 2012 
53 Comments
Got a great email today from a guy asking me about the RIGHT way to compliment a woman. He asked:
“Have you done a blog on giving compliments? I think I may have seen something that touched on this but I ask because of something that happened at work recently. A gal I work with asked me if I complimented women very much as I tried to pick up on them. I told her that I rarely do this. She told me that I was wrong for not doing so. I disagree but what are your thoughts? – Al”
I know I have definitely dished out this advice either in my private coaching, or in my products but not on my blog. So I wanted to show you my response to him on how to compliment a woman – The RIGHT Way
My Response:
Your girlfriend is kind of right. I wish she had given you more direction because simply complimenting for no reason can actually hurt you with women.
From my experience, and the 1000′s of interviews I have done with women from all over the world, I know that It’s about where the compliment comes from, not about what’s said.
So before complimenting, ask yourself these questions”
- Am I complimenting to get something? – If your answer if YES, then don’t compliment
- Am I complimenting to fill space so that there is no silence – If your answer if YES, then don’t compliment
- Am I complimenting because I don’t know what else to say – If your answer if YES, then don’t compliment
- Am I complimenting so that I can stay in conversation-If your answer if YES, then don’t compliment
- Am I complimenting to make her like you more – If your answer if YES, then don’t compliment
Compliments need to be real with women in order for them to have a real impact. If they are fluffy or dishonest, we will disregard them and they will have no effect. We can smell bullshit from a mile away.
Not sure if you saw my article on the magic word because, if not click HERE, but words have no meaning to women if they don’t have an emotion attached to them. Which means, a compliment must be deeper in order to get a response from a woman. She has to feel the compliment.
For example: You are beautiful
As nice as this compliment is, it means nothing. Here is the response this will get from a woman:
Female Response: great. you’re the 5th guy to tell me that today. It’s nice to hear but is that all you’ve got.
It’s not really said that bitchy but I am trying to show you the effect it has, even if it is subconscious. Picture this response as a simple shrug and a smile, which means – These words have no emotional impact.
Here is a better way to compliment if you want to say you are beautiful:
I know most men can see you’re a good looking woman, but I think your real beauty shows once you start to speak.
Now that statement shows a woman that you see her and you get her true beauty.
NOTE: Compliments still have to be sincere, even if they are said in this manner
I have an exercise for you, so that you can truly understand how it feels to woman, to have an empty compliment thrown her way.
Exercise:
Ask a stranger to compliment you for 30 seconds straight. Preferably a man. I know this seems tough but it’s actually really fun.
After, I want you to tell me how it felt to have empty, meaningless compliments thrown at you by another person.
The answer is exactly how women feel when you compliment them for no reason!
——-
I want you to try this experiment and tell me what you think, what you discovered and most importantly how you felt.
For more exercises check out my personal coaching programs. Click Here to find out more.
This is just 1 of the 1000′s of little things about women only a woman can teach you! Here are 42 more – Click Here To Get Instant Access
I agree with you Marni,telling a woman she is beautiful is meaningless.An attractive woman has been hearing that her whole life.Compliments on hear physical beauty have turned into white noise.You’ll receive a half-hearted forced grin out of sheer politeness.
She knows that she’s attractive…it would
be like walking up to a multi-millionaire
and saying,”Dude,you’re rich !!” No kidding,Capt.Obvious.
Would suggest something along the lines
of “Great hair,how do you get it to shine
like that ?” or “Cool shoes/boots..where
did you pick them up ?”
I haven’t done your experiment Marni, but I can tell you how I feel about complements. It all depends on what they’re complementing, who’s giving it to me, and how long it took me to get to that level of complements.
I’ll give you an example, when I was in high school, I was an awesome student, and kicked ass especially in computers and math. I knew what HTML was back in 1994, that’s how smart I was. I used web browsers before they were graphical, such as Lynx, and I used the FIRST iPhone, by linksys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_iPhone
Ok so if some dumb blonde or other dumb ass kid said I was smart, I didn’t care, they weren’t even in the rankings. Usually that never happened, or if it did it was a back handed complement, usually motivated by resentment, jealousy, or god-knows-what.
If someone who was *in my league* said I was smart, I took heed to it, and felt good about it, because they knew the gravity of giving a complement and wouldn’t just dole out complements like candy on Halloween.
so I’m actually agreeing here with you, complements are useless, but I say even generally speaking they are. I told a girl once, “I think you’re a good story teller” she responded, “I bet you say that to all the girls here” I said, “You’re wearing that same dress for all the guys here tonight?” She didnt have anything to say after that.
I used to take all the PUA stuff to heart and never compliment. A lot of it makes you seem cold.
Nowadays I do but there two conditions.
1) It has to be something genuine and specific that I’m already thinking to myself. “Your eyes are really brown. I like that.”
2) It has to be given without wanting anything in return.
This is very interesting, and recently I have been asking myself this question.
I’m seeing a wonderful Korean woman now (I live in Korea) and I like her a lot. We had our first date two weeks ago, and I saw her again the next week. I’ll see her again this Sunday. There’s just a lot to like about her!
Still, I wonder if I’m laying on the compliments too thick, but it’s not because I want something from her, it’s because she says and does things that I really like. So, I would like to add two criteria for giving compliments and please stop me if I’m wrong.
1. Am I complimenting her because she is doing something that I like? If the answer is YES, then DO compliment her.
2. Am I complimenting her because I want her to feel good about herself? If the answer is YES, then DO compliment her.
I may be wrong about number two. What do you think?
Hey Brandon,
what I would say is if you give out compliments too frequently then it can mean that they’re not appreciated as much: so choose one thing you like that she’s doing, rather than complimenting on everything… especially if there’s a lot to like!
And of course you want to make a woman feel good about herself, but again this will work best when it doesn’t happen all the time. Maybe focus on complimenting her on one thing she’s really working hard on at the moment (a project at work, a college paper) so that she feels like you’re complimenting her because you understand her: not because you want something from her.
Good luck
Marni
A lot what you really makes sense. Just imaging if I was an attractive woman having men continually come up to me and say the same old song and dance: ” oh your hot” or ” your so beautiful”. Seems empty after awhile. I learned a few things with your information. Thanks.
Hey Tim,
Glad you liked the article- if you can make a connection with a woman, instead of just saying the same old line she’s heard a million times before, then this is going to work a whole lot better
Marni
I completely agree with you on these points
1) It has to be something genuine and specific that I’m already thinking to myself. “Your eyes are really brown. I like that.”
2) It has to be given without wanting anything in return.
and really these two points are the same.
Of course, there in lies the entire paradox, because what is the primary purpose of this message board and marni’s business? To help guys get “what they want” in terms of women, dates, relationships, sex…
So, the way to get what we want is to not want anything? Right.
I recently left a job where a “player” talked a lot of white noise at me. He was into building tension most of the time, and even when not, would not “go there” when I tried to share my life with him (or asked about his. He may have been uncomfortable, but if he wanted to pick me up, why not engage? Or was he all talk and no action, and would he have “run for the hills” if I had reciprocated his flirtation? Any ideas?
Nicole,
First – I love that another woman is on here.
Second – Even more I love that you are showing guys the other side of the “office flirt” situation. I have been trying to explain for so long how frustrating it can be on the other end of the “flirt” when the guy won’t take action.
My advice to you is:
#1 – Think about what you want.
#2 – Once you know what you want, take action. If you want to flirt, FLIRT! If you want to date him, ask him out. I understand not wanting to feel aggressive or manly but there is a way to clearly tell a man he can ask you out and still maintain your femininity.
If you want more guidance, let me know. I can walk you through it OR I am sure lots of guys on here can tell you how they would want to be asked out by a girl in their office.
“but if he wanted to pick me up, why not engage?”
Dont know the guy, but if it were me, it would be fear of failure. Need to have pretty good idea that an “engagement” would be welcome.
Nicole:
It sounds like he was “scared” of you in a way. Are you exceptionally attractive? If a woman is too sexy/beautiful, even a seasoned player can get the “inner jitters” talking to her. It was his “front” so to speak…
He may have “shut himself up” like a clam to protect himself but enjoyed the banter.
Were you trying to “serve a ball” over the net into his court for clandestine reasons of your own? Usually players are very attractive men…sexy, sophisticated, and desirable. I pick up on a vibe, just by reading your blog, that the two of you could not get beyond the banter to even go out for a cup of coffee…and even if you had, the conversation would not have gone anywhere.
Looking at each other and fantasizing but have been the best your could do.
Also: if you know his sign you could go a “relationship compatibility” reading to see the “whys and why-nots” of the situation (it would greatly help if you had his exact time of birth..call the town clerk in the city where he was born or approach Vital Statistics in the nearest city to you..you don’t have to purchase a birth certificate…they will let you copy one). Good luck! He sounds worth it in a way…
SKW: I think you are right. He was scared. I left the job partly because of him…no totally because of him. We scared each other. He started flirting with another woman while I was still there and it kind of “broke my heart”. Isn’t it strange?
Bibette: Thanks. I know about birth certificates as I have had them done for “others” just so I could understand them better (they were co-workers in most cases). And when a co-worker is being difficult to handle, it helps a lot to understand what makes them tick. By the way, said player is a Sagittarius…the sign that is referred to as “Player”. They don’t like to settle down and prefer to live on their own…”Don’t Fence Me In” is their theme song.
Who’s Bibette?
oh, now I see the message.
“Usually players are very attractive men…sexy, sophisticated, and desirable.”
I’d say almost exclusively. they can afford to be.
“#2 – Once you know what you want, take action. If you want to flirt, FLIRT! If you want to date him, ask him out. I understand not wanting to feel aggressive or manly but there is a way to clearly tell a man he can ask you out and still maintain your femininity.”
this is great advice. in fact I’d say start to challenge society’s view of “manliness”
This could be a real movement here.
A lot of important points to deal with here. Thank God my gym is open 24/7 as this may take a while.
“I told a girl once, “I think you’re a good story teller” she responded, “I bet you say that to all the girls here” I said, “You’re wearing that same dress for all the guys here tonight?” She didnt have anything to say after that.”
Skw – That line “I bet you say that to all the girls” was in all probability an indicator of interest” – it usually is, for reference listen to the opening lines of Meatloaf’s “You Took the Words Right Out of My Mouth”. You then showed insecurity and even meanness in your response, though I don’t believe you intended to. It’s okay, I do this too as you and me have both had so many negative experiences we always assume the worst. Trust me though, it seems that was NOT one of them. Learn from it and next time you get that line be positive and see what happens (sorry if I sound ra-ra LOL I’m not Parkey or Marni in disguise don’t worry!)
“Usually players are very attractive men…sexy, sophisticated, and desirable.”
Agreed – that whole chat between Nicole and Bibette show LOOKS matter a lot. Anyone who thinks they don’t, then refer to the above.
“Thanks. I know about birth certificates as I have had them done for “others” just so I could understand them better (they were co-workers in most cases). And when a co-worker is being difficult to handle, it helps a lot to understand what makes them tick. By the way, said player is a Sagittarius…the sign that is referred to as “Player”. They don’t like to settle down and prefer to live on their own…”Don’t Fence Me In” is their theme song.”
This made me ROFL. This is why MALES who know what they are doing are much better gurus than females LOL. I’m a Cancer on the cusp of Leo and because the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter is aligned with Mars that means I think horoscopes are irrelevant. Oh silly me, what do I know?!
“Nowadays I do but there two conditions.
1) It has to be something genuine and specific that I’m already thinking to myself. “Your eyes are really brown. I like that.”
2) It has to be given without wanting anything in return.”
I agree with number 2, a compliment must be for its own intrinsic sake not for extrinsic purposes. Number 1 might have worked five years ago, but now seasoned women are getting to use to this PUA tactic of making a compliment specific that we have to be careful not to appear canned and planned about it. I’m sure, Parkey, you’d be aware of Dharam, who really uses the “sincere and meaningful compliment” strategy brilliantly in day game. Too many people have since tried to emulate this and rightfully so, but women are feeling saturated by this, so be CAREFUL. Only possible solution I can think of off the top of my head would be to try and embed truly honest and sincere compliments in your general way and mannerisms (maybe like Navi, who continually compliments males and females, young and old in that high-energy feel-good style of his, not sure if thats the answer…)
“You then showed insecurity and even meanness in your response, though I don’t believe you intended to. ”
What should I have said?
Something along the lines of “Only to pretty young brunettes like you who make me remember I’m straight and not gay!”
Okay maybe thats overdone but you get my point I think. Remember, at this stage, youre winning, so saying something nice about her, even if basic, creates comfort in the fact that she is also winning and you’re on the same team. As you are showing her hair colour is your type and that she looks young even if she isn’t are both making her feel good about herself. And the straight but not gay line just brings a bit of a laugh (and something for her to think about just to keep a little push-pull going).
As you were winning at that point, you should have said something like “Only the cute young brunettes like you”. You don’t need to overdo it as youre already in the ascendancy at that point, and by mentioning brunette or a characteristic about her, you’re giving her comfort that shes your type. And if she isn’t so young, then by implying she looks young you’re giving her a massive sincere compliment that builds comfort.
Don’t get me wrong, countelss negative experiences make it hard to suss out these positive moments, I, of all people, understand this problem all too well, believe me….
Yeah if women notice that a compliment is part of a “strategy” I think it’s understandable that they’re going to feel a bit put out by that.
I compliment because frankly life is awesome, I’m having a great time and I want to share the good feeling.
THAT is the way to compliment.
And that is cool – clearly the PUA Trainers who run on high energy ++++ (ie. Matt, Dharam, Navi, Adam A., etc.) have had a great effect on you, Parkey, and that is excellent. That company plus the lifestyle group did a lot for me too, both educationally and at least reducing my horrible inner self to something somewhat less horrible.
I think (and I could be wrong) there are a few reasons why this works even tenfold for people like you.
1) You seem like a naturally positive person who had other areas of your life sorted but struggled with self-image in relation to women and didn’t have the natural knowledge and skills to attract them.
2) You are not only open to ideas (which we all are), you find it easier to embrace them and are less stubborn and more “go with the flow”.
3) You are English whereas I am a foreigner (with Aspergers on top of that)and you get the English way of doing things and reading people. I know that much of PUA is about picking up foreigners but when they are in London, especially on vacation they get very impressed by Englishness.
4) While I know you hate numbers out of ten, you have improved your appearance and style to at least the magic 7.
Maybe I have missed the point, but what you need to realise is that people like me would love to become the above but it’s not in my make-up. Douglas from the lifestyle group made a very valid point when he said that all these things like affirmations work for some but not others. While you can run with it, the likes of skw and me need a more logical strategy with a higher emphasis on looks and actually reading women and WHY they do what they do in INDIVIDUAL SITUATIONS in order to get where we want in our realities. A more scientific approach based not only on how MY TEAM plays but also THE OPPOSITION. This is in my blood, just like the fact an anaesthetic that supposedly has 99.9% success rate didn’t work both when I was getting my wisdom teeth out and taking a long-haul flight. So to hear things like “change your outlook” alone can do wonders for some but not for others.
PUA isn’t my background. I’m interested in attracting, not acquiring women.
There’s an important line that can be drawn between doing something to make a woman attracted to you (as in PUA) as opposed to simply become someone attractive.
That’s a distinction without a difference.
If you’re someone attractive, then by definition you are attracting women. And it’s also contextual , ie in which setting:
If you’re a top crack dealer, then at the crack ho convention, you’re attractive, and will likely attract women.
but if you’re in a logical thought convention, you would occupy the lower part of the scale and not be as attractive.
Skw – what Parkey means is becoming someone who is inherently attractive as opposed to using techniques (and even Mystery-like gimmicks) to attract a particular woman.
I think, however, Parkey, you may not be giving PUA as a whole the credit its due. While a lot is about techniques, some of it is also about increasing your attractiveness in a general sense too.
Well, I think the “techniques” only work for certain types of women, for certain types of situations.
but to “simply become someone attractive” is pretty much the same as “making someone attracted to you”
but to “simply become someone attractive” is pretty much the same as “making someone attracted to you”
Id go one step farther and say its to UP THE % of women attracted to you IN GENERAL.
And then back comes the obvious point that this depends very much on LOOKS and PERSONALITY, the first of which often opens doors to show the second. Until this is acknowledged EXPLICITLY, then any forums, whether PUA or ATTRACTION-BASED or whatever, will not be doing their readers the full service.
The difference between being someone attractive, and doing something to make someone attracted to you is huge, and finding it was the biggest “Aha!” I’ve had in this game.
If you see a woman and you go to talk to her with the intention of making her attracted to you, by running game on her, giving her a compliment, etc, you are trying to make something happen. You need a specific outcome. Women pick up on when you’re trying to manipulate and control the situation like that.
If you see the same woman and you go to talk to her just because you enjoy it, and because you enjoy behaving in a way that you know is attractive, you aren’t trying to get her to respond in any particular way. You are detached from the outcome. Not only is this fun, but it was when I started to do this that women, and beautiful women too, started to want to keep the conversation going. “So what’s your name?” or, when they had to go “are you coming?”, or in one case refusing to leave until I’d taken her number.
It’s an amazingly powerful distinction. I wish it was me that had thought of it.
“just because you enjoy it, and because you enjoy behaving in a way that you know is attractive, you aren’t trying to get her to respond in any particular way.”
And yet you’re selling me this course of action EXACTLY because of a response you got:
“but it was when I started to do this that women, and beautiful women too, started to want to keep the conversation going. “So what’s your name?” or, when they had to go “are you coming?”, or in one case refusing to leave until I’d taken her number.”
So, you’re telling me the way I can get my desired response from women is to not try and get her to respond in a particular way, even though the motivation for even entertaining such a strategy is to get her to respond in a particular way?
Are we not even trying to make sense any more?
This is why I say there’s no difference at all, or its very subtle, in the sense that the goal isn’t something you’re conscious of at every waking moment.
Just look at Marni’s hostel story, where she says she screwed some guy because “he wasn’t really interested in girls” but more about “having a good time” but he took actions to have sex with her later, so obviously he was interested in girls.
Lets look at this statement more closely:
“you go to talk to her just because you enjoy it, ”
Why do I “enjoy” it? I enjoy it because I’m confident I can “make her attracted to me” At least thats a big part of why I’d enjoy it. All this, “forget about attracting her and you’ll attract her” nonsense is just that: nonsense.
I thought we had to be ourselves.
I thought we had to be honest.
I thought we had to be “upfront and direct”, according to Marni anyway, her own words:
“If you see a woman you find attractive, go get her and let her know what you want.”
and
“Be direct and ask for what you want OR you can continue asking for what you don’t want and tip toeing around it. Think of how you asked for gifts from Santa when you were younger.”
Btw Marni, you never responded to my direct request to have sex with you – hmm I guess the strategy not as successful as you originally suggested?
Yes, it is difficult to comprehend at first. You have to adopt behaviours which, in the immediate context, don’t appear to make sense or deliver the desired outcome but their impacts on the system on a larger scale make what you want to happen inevitably occur.
“You have to adopt behaviours which, in the immediate context, don’t appear to make sense or deliver the desired outcome ”
But the behavior you’re advocating is to not even desire the “desired outcome” That’s illogical, which is right up you’re alley.
Actually I think success with women in general means you just have to resign yourself to not think or act logically.
No. Desire the outcome, desire it as much as you like and don’t for a moment feel guilty for it. BUT become detached from it. Don’t act as though this woman is your last ever chance and you need her.
Yes. Instead of acting out some logical plan to manipulate the situation in your favour step back have a bit of fun. Remember fun?
Its a tough one to get your head around but yes Parkey youre correct. We all desire something and in a way are desperate for it so I can see skw’s point about faking it not working. Yes having fun and being playful is the answer but for me thats hard to do when the looks thing is still evident and in our face with our very move.
“BUT become detached from it. Don’t act as though this woman is your last ever chance and you need her.”
No one is saying that, need is a strong word, of course I dont feel like I need her, in the same way I need air food water and shelter
THere is no difference to me from detaching yourself from an outcome, and not desiring it in the first place. if you desire it, then you will be attached, even if only a little bit, to the outcome
” Desire the outcome, desire it as much as you like and don’t for a moment feel guilty for it.”
Why desire the outcome if you’re not supposed to do anything directly to obtain it? As you say here:
“you have to adopt behaviours which, in the immediate context, don’t appear to make sense or deliver the desired outcome ”
which by the way contravenes Marni’s statements here:
“If you see a woman you find attractive, go get her and let her know what you want.”
I understand where both you guys are coming from. If you can be like Parkey (I have many mates like this) then great, it will work.
If you cant (like skw or me) then the best thing to keep in mind, is directness not neediness (a hard line to tread, especially if looks and status don’t back it up in an overt way). Body language is key here. It is tough because to use the direct alpha approach without appearing needy looks, body language, confidence (arrgh!), status (arrrgh again!), etc become PARAMOUNT. Ive yet to find the full answer for this other then develop a sexy bum and look hot hot hot and even then not fully guaranteed with some of the less shallow women…
” is directness not neediness (a hard line to tread, especially if looks and status don’t back it up in an overt way)”
This is a fair point. I’d even extend it to say the way to be direct without being needy is to have experience, which as we both know, is easiest achieved by looks, power, money, status.
All this stuff is great and sounds nice on paper, but ultimately you’re trying to change a belief system about yourself that you’ve spent years cultivating.
And it’s completely disingenuous to neglect the external feedback component of that.
” If you can be like Parkey (I have many mates like this) then great, it will work.”
You mean delusional and adopting beliefs for which I have 0 supporting evidence?
I dont know. Probably not.
Haha no! Yeah you and me are not like this skw, there is no chance we can work on those lines. But in the UK especially, possibly due to social status not being as looks-dependent or even dependent on current wealth and power (but more historic – for example the social classes are defined primarily from birth and family history – a unique anthropoligical situation to say the least, maybe unlike anywhere else in the world), public schoolboy types (even if not genetically HOT and broke) can charm women with their tongues. So, no, i don’t believe they are delusional, but I, for one, can’t get my head around it and put myself in such a frame.
I received yet another stealth attraction email tonight about the idea of escalating in a way that the woman doesn’t know your escalating (to prevent rejection) – again I believe it works, but I have an EGO and I want the bloody hot babe CONSCIOUSLY CHOOSING ME for God’s sake.
“And it’s completely disingenuous to neglect the external feedback component of that.”
Absolutely agreed – anytime a woman looks at my pics on a website and doesn’t respond, anytime I hear the dreaded “I’m not looking” or “Friends” garbage, anytime anything is not successful, you have to reflect on it and try and figure out whether it was looks or game and if so, exactly what could have improved it (does the 18 year old Ukranian blonde want a younger-looking taller man?, does the 24 year old Irish brunette want more banter rather than too much serious stuff?, etc.). And a loss is a loss, that is life and that is reality. I mean, seriously, if anyone on the Ravens or 49ers has smiled once in the last 24 hours, they shouldn’t be getting paid what they’re getting paid to play the bloody game and WIN.
How much is in our control, how much is not? How much is looks, how much is personality? Have to believe “A lot” is the answer on all 4 counts but again, you need a thick skin to deal with flat out rejection like water off a duck’s back (especially for shallow reasons such as facial appearance) and push on to the others who are giving you every chance in the world….
“Absolutely agreed – anytime a woman looks at my pics on a website and doesn’t respond, anytime I hear the dreaded “I’m not looking” or “Friends” garbage, anytime anything is not successful, you have to reflect on it and try and figure out whether it was looks or game and if so, exactly what could have improved i”
I think Parkey and his ilk should read the above paragraph each time people like you and I have been rejected.
Yeah, my guess is Parkey doesn’t put himself in situations where rejection is eminent, and a lot is about fun, playfulness and social proof.
I’ve known my friend Leo for two and a half years now (we met at a PUA seminar) and for at least the first 18 months I’d never seen him get rejected. Then finally at a singles night, I saw how he avoids that image – he just has such a good read of what goes on and won’t give the overtly shallow chicks that don’t fancy him any attention.
On said night, these three women (who were by far the hottest women at the singles night, but rude and bitchy) tried to push their way past me and him and use their looks to one-up us. Knowing that I have no social grace and was ready to cause a scene, Leo was forced to step in, in a manner he usually wouldn’t (he’s a posh north londoner lol). Right afterwards, I said “they’re attitude would have changed for the positive if they found us hot, Leo”. His only response was “I don’t find them hot, part of having choice is not accepting such behaviour.” True, but still doesn’t negate or even address my valid point. It dawned on me at that point that Leo has such social and people-reading skills that he almost always knows the girls that will and won’t give him a chance and simply doesn’t put himself in the firing line when he knows it will lead to rejection.
So Parkey and his ilk have a different reality than you and me, skw, which is fine. Its when they transpose it onto the likes of us and how we should “sort our inner self” that I get funny about it, and to be fair to Parkey, he’s cut down on that lately lol.
” and a lot is about fun, playfulness and social proof.”
Well sure, I can make girls laugh and take advantage of situations in which I have social proof. Heck my friend met his wife in one such situation.
However, the key here is goal orientedness vs non-goal orientedness, and Parkey advocates one, and Marni advocates the other (I mean her entire business is geared towards a goal oriented nature of behavior)
I’m loving this business of having an ilk.
But I have a different reality because I built it.
When I was new to this, and nothing seemed to be working, I commented to a friend that I felt like a deluded fool to believe in a process that wasn’t delivering yet. He replied “we are all deluded fools, so choose your delusion wisely.”
“I’m loving this business of having an ilk.”
What it means is, nothing you say is new, and it’s obvious why the “dating coach” community echoes it, because they have a clear financial incentive to do so as well.
I’d say again congratulations to the changes you were able to make, however, I’d say you were never scraping the bottom of the well like someone like myself has been – which again is a good thing.
Lets face it, we are searching for a match. Same crap doesn’t work on everyone. Use the same conversation on 20 women, half might love it, and others are looking for the door.
I get some girls who like less orthodox conversation, with less same old song and dance. Then, others look at you like, “Why are you different? Strange.” Vice versa.
Luckily for me, I find most of the girls who I feel I would really like, enjoy talking to me. This is even when they can’t see me over the net, so it isn’t purely about my looks. Which makes me happy, because I don’t want a woman who will fake it entirely for looks. So, there seems to be a type that finds me interesting (mentally), which is nice.
There’s definitely a person for everyone out there.
But you’re totally right, though there are some general rules for success, a lot of how well a conversation goes is based on how much you listen & respond to the woman you’re talking to, and how much you’re able to tailor what you’re saying to her.
Marni
Anyway, I agree with not complimenting for the sake of it. Sometimes, you don’t even need to say it. If you are genuinely happy around someone, I don’t think much needs to be said.
Skw and Mark
This is further to my comments in the recent blog post on rejection. There I have commented more generally and although ive addressed a few things you’ve said, my aim in commenting was mainly to set the advice Marni gave in the context of my own experience, with which it resonates very strongly. I also gave some references as to where else i have learnt similar ideas from and which corroborate what was written.
Here I would like to address you both more directly, only because you seem to be the most active in the commentary section and you have ideas and principles that conflict (even jar) with my own. How much experience and success have you had in terms of meeting women? Generally the more you have had, the more useful the information you will have to give, and the more constructive your comments will be in terms of adding value to the readership of the site. If you are just looking for information so that you can learn and improve, you would be asking more open ended questions and making less statements and arguments…
This isn’t to criticise but as an outsider to your conversation (and a fellow reader), id like to give you my perspective which may or may not be useful for you – your posts mainly project low self esteem and a fear of rejection, which are in large part self perpetuating. All i read in your comments (and i’ve read more of Skw’s to be honest) are attempts to intellectualise the subject matter, logically arguing and theorising as to why no advice will work for you other than being good looking and having the external validation of women fancying you as a starting point. This doesn’t seem to be coming from an informed viewpoint, unless I am mistaken, and you cannot simply deduce the answers to how you will or will not improve your success with women through logic and rational argument (…otherwise politicians, mathematicians and physicists would be probably be the world’s foremost pimp players giving us all advice on how to meet and seduce women!)
Please heed some well intentioned advice, so that you stop wasting years of your life scaring yourselves out of going for what you want for fear of rejection… If your goal is to improve your ability to meet women, and you are serious about doing this, go get as much approaching experience as you can, and I would advise some coaching / mentoring …eventually you will have some success with higher quality women than you currently believe you can attract… so keep a journal, document your progress and what has / hasn’t worked for you… Then by all means come back and theorise about what you have learned. You will then have evidence based on which to agree / disagree with the author in a constructive, useful way.
Very few readers will be interested in reading (ad infinitum) that a couple of unknown individuals (i know i am also unknown
) have decided that they don’t believe in the advice of an established dating instructor, based on intellectual debating and postulating (to compensate for their limited experiences), whereby they have never tried implementing any of the advice of the author. If I am wrong and you already have substantial experience and a knowledge you have gained from successfully meeting and dating women, then please do share some of what you have learned. The odd rejection every few weeks / months does not count as experience. I mean experience of really going for it and pushing yourself.
People who read these blogs, and read dating and self help material in general, tend to believe that self improvement and personal growth are realistic, achievable and rewarding goals. The exception is usually where they have begun looking for advice from a disbelieving, cynical frame (and out of desperation because nothing else has worked for them), then wandered onto a site by accident and realise they can entertain themselves by trolling the author’s work or starting pointlessly intellectual debates about subject matter they don’t have sufficient experience to understand. Yes, this can be entertaining when you’re bored but it detracts from the experience of other readers.
Of course you can say that all of the PUA advice is driven by financial incentive. A lot of it is. Anyone selling a product will have financial incenive whether the product is good or bad. However, you don’t seem (yet) to have the experience or knowledge to usefully differentiate between what is and what isn’t. Correct me if I have misjudged the level that you are at.
Ive been a dating student before, when i went through a bad patch (had 4 sessions, amounting to 12 hours, and early initial success, luckily), and I am now training to be an instructor (- will take me a couple of months to get going again as im out of action due to recent operation). I now live with a group of non-commercial dating coaches in London who teach guys how to meet women as a hobby, to better themselves, and charge only small amounts in order to fund events / residentials etc. I also know a few coaches from commercial companies in the London area, due to being on the scene and having networked to make friends here. I haven’t met Marni or any of the other well known coaches from the US as yet (- maybe one day I will, who knows!)
I’ve recently become a fan of Marni’s work and am not interested in selling or advertising anyone else here, just to clarify before i go on… Based on my extensive experience and the huge amount of dating advice, live coaching, seminars, conversations with friends in the industry etc that i have been exposed to on a daily basis, i can tell you that the advice I’ve seen from her, including the post here (and particularly in the recent post on rejection) is authentic. I can say this because it corroborates what i have learnt in my own journey to improve myself.
Particularly with regard to fear of rejection, subjecting one’s self to this repeatedly is how i have seen almost all other students learn and improve. The ones who learn too slowly or who don’t learn at all are the ones who refuse to put themselves on the line. They are a rarity in the coaching sessions ive helped at beause usually a student is pushed (and if necessary teased, cajoled, seduced, or bullied!) into repeatedly approaching until the fear subsides and they see that really ‘rejection’ is a joke, and deserves to be treated as such. Rejection is most often based on the subjecttive, momentary first impression of one female, who doesn’t know you, in one context… basically it’s her initial guess as to whether she would want to take anything further with you. And unless you are extremely unattractive (i mean overall as a man, not just in terms of your looks), you can often change this, depending on how much experience and confidence you have gained.
The only way to gain confidence initially is by approaching. Try the exercise Marni advises in that previous post – approach ten attractive woman in 1-2 days, with as little attachment to the outcome as you can manage. Even if you are rejected ten times, you should have more courage and respect for yourself at the very least. You will be more in touch with your masculine core (in cavemann terms, ‘i see woman… i go get woman!’)… If you lack the courage to try this right now, you are not the first (- i also had a little help, remember -) but you should get someone experienced to lend you their confidence and motivation (a skilled friend, mentor, dating coach etc) by pushing you into it. If you are pushed to do enough approaching in a short space of time, your courage and confidence will grow exponentially. Eventually you can push yourself to approach without anyone motivating you.
The only way to break out of a negatve cycle (i.e. Fear of rejection —- Anxiety —- Inaction—- Fear of rejection —- etc) is to begin a positive cycle by takig action (i.e. Courage —- Positive action —- Confidence —- Courage etc). I know from this that rejection will never dent my self esteem, whereas a failure to approach has the potential to do so. You need to get past the Ego, more specifically your need to protect it, and push yourself or be pushed – it’s the only way to get going…
Lastly, do not associate your looks with your sense of self esteem (happiness / self worth), or to your value to a woman. Guys who are much better looking (and have other external benefits) tend to begin with more confidence and courage than you. They often get external validation for doing nothing, which can sometimes give them confidence. But you can often equal and surpass their level of confidence and success by gaining experience and knowledge. Yes of course i know guys who are better looking than me and have had more success than me (and while i am still learning)… But i also know guys who are better looking than me but do not have the confidence to approach and get physical with a woman in the same way that I would. Often they will stand by and watch while i get the girl, and I tend to presume that the girl initially found them more attractive (on first sight) but then changed her mind when it was me who had the balls to take action and go for what i wanted.
I hope you find every success, whatever you do. Best of luck.
Al
…Ps. I am not the same Al who sent in the question. I do give compliments when i want to, believe me…
i disagree again with you Marni,i think complimenting a girl is a good thing, to me the girl that does not accept compliments is a FREAK , come on Marni if you were wearing a nice hot looking dress , i will bet my house ! that you WOULD LOVE a compliment !!!!!!!! i am a man , not a stone or a machine , you Marni are not a stone or a machine , you have FEELINGS BECAUSE YOU ARE A HUMAN !!!!!! To tell you truth , a woman who doesn’t take or hear my compliments and doesn’t respond to me , i right away tell her to F*** OFF.