How To Handle Rejection By A Woman

Rejection sucks. It does.  It sucks for men. It sucks for women (yes women get rejected too).  Overall it sucks. BUT, it sucks less when you experience it more.  Honestly, I know that seems counter intuitive but it’s true.

I know from my own personal experience, that the more I put myself out there and feel the brunt of rejection, it actually effects  me  less.

I’m going to be gross for one second but I was listening to NPR and they were discussing torture victims. They said that those who experienced torture in their lives, no longer felt fear. It’s as if they hit their tipping point after being tortured and developed the belief system that nothing could be worse, so why be fearful.  This made them push forward even harder and with more confidence.

I talk to hundreds of guys every week, thousands every month and they all fear the same thing, REJECTION!!! So instead of putting themselves out there to possibly be rejected, they don’t do anything and get no results.  In my opinion that’s just silly.  They are basically rejecting themselves, so that they won’t experience being rejected by a woman.

I was responding to comments that people post on  my blog and I stumbled across one that made me think, this guy gets it!!  This guy gets to how handle rejection by a woman AND how to flip the switch so his response creates attraction. It’s posted below:


This post honestly made my day!! I love hearing when guys who read my materials finally get it and they stay grounded and calm.  Totally sexy and super attractive to women.

Honestly there is nothing sexier than a man who is unaffected by my actions.  Gives me chills just thinking about it. Why is this? Because it singles to me that this man can handle things.

“I had this guy that I had stuck in the friend zone for years. Whenever he would bring up becoming something more, I would say no I don’t want to ruin our friendship blah blah blah and he would crumble and try to convince me to be with him.  Total turn off. Then one time when he brought it up, he said to me OK, smiled and then stopped contacting me.  That man has been my boyfriend for 2.5 years. Ha.” – Emily 28

Lesson: Rejection isn’t the bad thing, it’s the way you handle it that can make you feel so horrible.

**My 3 girlfriends and I discuss this in full length in my program What’s Inside A Woman’s Mind. We reveal exactly how the right man will handle rejection and how 1 little mistake will ruin your chances forever. Click Here to Read More…


So here is my exercise to you
(you knew this was coming, ha):

GO OUT AND GET REJECTED 10 TIMES THIS WEEKEND!!! 

I am being totally serious. Go out, take chances, approach super hot women YOU believe would never give you the time of day, say whatever you want to her and then get rejected and love it!!!  Even smile or laugh to yourself after you get rejected and then walk away.

I want to hear about all your experiences, stories, success, failures so make sure to come back and write them below in the comments box.

The goal of this exercise is to have fun being rejected.  This little psychological tweak will, improve your presence with women, help you stay grounded and teach you how to handle rejection with grace so that women find you attractive.

There are 1000′s of little things that men don’t know about women. But I guarantee if you knew them, it would put you in the top 1% of men that have their choice of women they want. I can tell every little thing you need to know about women. Including the things that women would never want you to know.  Check out the system 1000′s of men use to make women want them.  Read more….

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  • http://mikeseroveyreviews.com Mike Serovey

    Being rejected by a woman that I just met is annoying, but no big deal. What I have trouble with is being rejected by someone that lives next door to me and I see on a regular basis!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Mike,

      If you live nearby to a woman remember she’ll feel awkward about it too! The more calm and relaxed you can be about it, the better you’ll both feel. So next time that you see her walking down the street, hold your head up high and smile.

      Good luck

      Marni :)

      • dave

        Let the women do the approaching so that they can feel rejection and see the wonderful character building of it. This would do them, and men, a world of good!

        • http://twitter.com/DrewDees06 Andrew West

          that won’t happen

          • dave

            Well, the numbers ( and the great array of ads you see from the “pickup-artist schools” show that guys are not approaching as much. Maybe I do not know all of the reasons, but women are now making these complaints since I guess that THEY do not want to be rejected themselves.

  • http://www.ericcastanedaspeaks.com Eric

    Hey Marni,

    I totally needed to hear this!I recently went on a date with this woman who I met online. It went really well and at the end of the date we made out. It was a massive make out lol. I told her to text me when she got home and she did.

    I didn’t phone or call her the next day but I text her the day after that. Everything was cool and we were having a normal conversation. I was flirting, teasing, etc.

    So yesterday I asked her on another date and she didn’t respond! LOL. That really threw me off and upset me. I was thinking, didn’t we have a good time?, what did I do wrong? etc.

    Instead of texting her or calling her and asking her those things(which would of killed attraction) I just didn’t react. I haven’t contact her and I won’t. If she contact’s me which from experience she probably will then cool and if not that’s OK too because I have another date with a different women this weekend LOL.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Eric,

      sounds like you’ve got a great attitude towards this one! Whilst it’s always good to think about what could have gone better; you’re right not to take it personally when a woman doesn’t get back to you: as you just don’t know what’s going on in her life, and in her mind.

      Good luck with your new date!

      Marni :)

  • Jamiel Cotman

    This reminds me of an episode of Fresh Prince of Be-lair, where the wealthy-attractive Hillary Banks, gets hit on by the plumber or in house mechanic. It was Valentines Day.

    Plumber: You have anyone to spend Valentines Day with?

    Hillary: No, unfortunately I don’t.

    Plumber: Well, maybe we can do something later. How about it?

    Hillary: I don’t know how to say this…but…I’m too good for you.

    [studio audience laughs]

    Plumber:[calmly-confidently-smiles] You know what Ms…you’re probably right. Have a Happy Valentines Day!

    After he walked off, Hillary breaks something else in the house on purpose, and runs to go get him.

    It was just how he said it. He really thought highly of her…

    BUT…

    …didn’t think any less of himself.

    • http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3488137/ Jeffry Summer

      Thanks Jamiel! I remember that episode and at the time, thought it was strange how Hilary reacted to the plumber’s confidence.

      It’s women (people) like Marni that make the world a better place. it doesn’t hurt she is cute & quirky-smart! ;)

      However, there is plenty of mystery left in the world. The fun of it is being able to discover what’s next…

      Peacefully Stay,
      -Jeff

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Jamiel,

      Never thought I’d be saying this about the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, but I really like your end comment:

      “He really thought highly of her…

      BUT…

      …didn’t think any less of himself.”

      Very true

      Marni :)

  • Ron

    You say this is how women work?? Do you mean women purposely like rejecting men… but that they sometimes unreject them when they are unreative to the woman’s put-down… as Hawking said in your quote yesterday, women are mysteries. :-)

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Ron,

      I don’t think women enjoy rejecting men: in fact it can feel just as uncomfortable from a woman’s perspective. However, if we do ‘reject’ a guy and see him show great qualities of being calm, collected and masculine, with it: then women can have a change of heart.

      Marni :)

      • Vinny

        Hey everyone,

        insecure women (and the human race in general), want what they can’t have and don’t like to show their true feelings about anything.

        It takes confidence to show the vulnerabilty to ‘make the move’. Reactly calmly to rejection, can switch the ‘control’ of the interaction with insecure chicks. They want to bring you down to their level of insecurity so you are a vibrational match.

        Most chicks who respond by chasing you after you calmly handle their rejection, will go on to try and invalidate you later in some way. Handle rejection calmly by all means as this shows you are in control of your own emotions, but move on and forget that chick.

        Our society is breeding insecure woman by the bucketload and unless you’re just as insecure there’s no future in it.

        None of what I have said applies if you’re just looking to hit and run. In which case go for it.

        Vinny

        • Marni Wing Girl

          Hey Vinny

          I agree that lots of people are insecure: it’s an easy state of mind to get into. The best you can do as a man is not to worry too much about the women’s immediate reaction: instead keep focused on being the best person you can be, take action, keep your cool and not take it personally if you don’t get the reaction you want. Instead, just know in yourself that you’re a confident, complete and attractive person who tons of other women will be happy to meet.

          Marni :)

  • http://rich_muffy@hotmail.com rich

    You touched on a soft spot there. You’re great

    Thanks.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Thanks Rich :)

  • skw

    “They said that those who experienced torture in their lives, no longer felt fear”

    But they were probably bitter motherF*ckers and didn’t really expect too much from humanity from there on out.

    “In my opinion that’s just silly. They are basically rejectioning themselves, so that they won’t experience being rejected by a woman.”

    It’s not silly. Maybe you don’t understand because you don’t live with society pressure telling you it’s your job to go out and “make it happen” and “have balls”

    It’s actually smart thinking. Have you heard the famous statement – (not by Einstein, but commonly attributed to him)

    “The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results.”

    “Then one time when he brought it up, he said to me OK, smiled and then stopped contacting me. That man has been my boyfriend for 2.5 years. Ha”

    There’s a difference between actually not caring and “being grounded” and pretending to not care and be grounded, when you’re really internally crumbling just to get the response that you talk about.

    If I smile and say OK like I don’t care, then I REALLY DONT CARE and I wouldn’t want to be your boyfriend even if you wanted to at that point. Do you see the paradox here?

    • Chao

      ” It’s not silly. Maybe you don’t understand because you don’t live with society pressure telling you it’s your job to go out and “make it happen” and “have balls” ”

      Basically, it shouldn’t be a big deal to you if you’ve got your life together in general to have someone turn you down for a date, whether you’re male or female.

      I do think women overlook the fact that it takes a certain level of confidence to come up and confidently approach them. I’m willing to place a huge wager that most women have no where near the self-confidence to do what they insist guys do for them. A little hypocritical, don’t you think, Marni?

      I’d love to know how close am I with my guess.

      • skw

        “I do think women overlook the fact that it takes a certain level of confidence to come up and confidently approach them. I’m willing to place a huge wager that most women have no where near the self-confidence to do what they insist guys do for them. A little hypocritical, don’t you think, Marni?”

        What I’m most interested in is… how do women get rejected? And I know how unattractive women get rejected, they don’t get approached. And believe me, I feel for them. Being an overweight, unattractive woman is tougher than being an unattractive guy. No argument or contention on that point.

        But I’m talking about those women out there who have tons of choice, or even a little bit of choice. The above average to superbly hot women.

        I’ve heard this before “women get rejected too”

        …but how?

        • http://www.gkdating.com Greg

          Hey skw,

          You ask how attractive women get rejected. It’s the same way how attractive men get rejected — every way imaginable.

          I first heard the line in the movie “Alfie,” but it goes something like, “For every beautiful woman, there’s a guy who’s bored with her.”

          Actually, if a woman has tons of options, it may give her a false sense of security when she runs into a guy who won’t put up with nonsense. This happened with a friend of mine recently when an attractive 24-year-old he was seeing caused a scene in his favorite bar. He never saw her again, even though she called him like 20 times.

          I don’t claim to be superhuman when it comes to turning down a hot woman, but if I think I could do better, I will.

          • skw

            “You ask how attractive women get rejected. It’s the same way how attractive men get rejected — every way imaginable.”

            How can that be the case, when 9 out of 10 attractive women don’t approach, never have any intention of approaching. Logically speaking, isn’t a pre-req to getting rejected, actually approaching?

            “This happened with a friend of mine recently when an attractive 24-year-old he was seeing caused a scene in his favorite bar.”

            I mean. cmon, I don’t consider this a “rejection” this is common sense of the guy!

            It’s like saying, a guy with a knife was banging on my door, and I didn’t let him in, see guys with knifes get rejected too!

            If you act stupidly and get rejected thats different than getting rejected because you don’t encompass some perceived notion of being an attractive guy.

      • Marni Wing Girl

        Hey Chao,

        I totally agree that if you’ve got yourself together, as a man or a woman, handling rejection is a whole lot easier: because you don’t need to get any confirmation of who you are from the outside world- you just know it.

        In the moment maybe some women don’t appreciate the courage it’s taken a guy to approach them- however women often ‘reject’ guys not out of being cruel, but because they feel uncomfortable themselves. That’s why when a guy ‘takes the pressure off’ the woman by handling the rejection so well, she cam feel more relaxed and is more likely to feel attracted to him.

        Marni :)

  • skw

    Here’s my story,

    I emailed a girl, and she friendzoned me saying, “lets all hang out bla bla bring friends…”

    I totally ignored her, didn’t call her back and grovel, and guess what she’s dating the other guy! Because she’s attracted to that guy more than me!

    • Ardiana

      [i]skw // January 6, 2012 at 12:27 pm

      I emailed a girl, and she friendzoned me saying, “lets all hang out bla bla bring friends…”

      I totally ignored her, didn’t call her back and grovel, and guess what she’s dating the other guy! Because she’s attracted to that guy more than me![/i]

      Yes for now, but if she sees you’ ve ramped up your game she will become interested in you. Though, if you get to shift your game into a new gear and can get more girls on dates, you don’t necessarily even want her. So its a question of No demand – Lots of demand.

  • skw

    “Being rejected by a woman that I just met is annoying, but no big deal.”

    I’d agree with you, this is a great mindset to have. annoying but no big deal. I’d say though the only way to feel this way, is to feel like you *can* attract most of the women you talk to. Basically that the rejections are just flukes. But the best way to believe they are flukes, is if you have more positive experiences than negative, and not the other way around.

    • Vinny

      skw,

      great point you’ve made.

      The only way to avoid negative experiences is to have ‘no’ experiences.

      Probabilty suggests that the more positive experiences you have the more negatives will also be experienced. Both quantum physics and esoteric wisdom tell us that when we react poorly to a situation, we are more likely to attract more of the same. Jung said: ‘what you resist persists’

      Practicing risking rejection by approaching women with the intent not to feel disappointed if it don’t work out, can really change your vibration and what you attract in the future.

      Lot of guys find all the excuses not to ask a woman out and talk themselves out of it.

      The excuses are best used after the knock-back. She might be taken; maybe she’s been hit on 10 times earlier that night and is just out with a friend for drink; maybe she’s just been dumped and is feelin’ anti-guy; maybe she’s just out to get guys to buy her drinks ‘cos her guy’s away and she’s a bitch.

      All good things to tell yourself ‘after’ you’ve gotten a knock-back. As well as I’m OK

  • Steve

    Hell, yes. If you want to get some real attraction, try this. Walk across the dancefloor in front of everyone to the best looking woman you can find and ask her to dance. Place your hand out for her to take it. She probably will not. Say “OK” casually walk away without a care in the world. Head up straight, no tension. Stop to take a casual sip of your drink on your way back to your seat. Body language vital. Then sit down and carry on with whatever you are doing. Pretend to be casually looking a friend and notice the chicks looking at you.

    The fact that you handled the rejection well is a turn on for all the chicks there, not just for the one that refused you.

    The fact you were rejected means nothing to them. IT IS HOW YOU HANDLED THE REJECTION THAT COUNTS. Rejection can be your biggest friend. Use it as much as you can!!!!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Steve,

      this is a great example of how you can turn a negative reaction into a positive display of your own character

      Marni :)

  • Jon

    Here’s one way to look at it:

    What’s the worst thing that will happen if you get rejected? NOTHING CHANGES, right? Currently, if you don’t approach or talk to a girl, you’re going home empty handed.

    By approaching a girl, you are at least putting yourself in a position to succeed. You HAVE to have the mentality of at least setting yourself up for success, rather than failure, or you’ll just talk yourself out of it the majority of the time.

    Confidence, gentlemen, even when feigned, is the key here, as Ms. Marni states. It has nothing to do with YOUR interest level in her, but everything to do with hers in you. The conundrum is that you can’t control that at the offset… but what you CAN control are YOUR emotions. If you let it run off your shoulders, the you at least appear to not let things bother you, which is definitely an attractive quality.

    The great Michael Jordan once said, “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” Great words to live by…

    • skw

      “What’s the worst thing that will happen if you get rejected? NOTHING CHANGES, right? Currently, if you don’t approach or talk to a girl, you’re going home empty handed.”

      Disagree. something does change. you feel just a little bit shittier about yourself. I think of it this way, each girl you approach is like making a small investment on a stock. the stock goes up (ie you get the date) or the stock goes down (you get rejected) and then you sell, if it goes down a little, you still lose a little. Now take a little loss and multiply it by 10 or 100, so now you’ve got a lot of shitty experiences

      “By approaching a girl, you are at least putting yourself in a position to succeed. You HAVE to have the mentality of at least setting yourself up for success, rather than failure, or you’ll just talk yourself out of it the majority of the time.”

      I agree with this, you do increase your chances of success by approaching, but for some guys, only minisculy. Ie. for some guys (like say me) if I approach, there’s only a marginally better chance then her coming up and taking me to the back, stripping my clothes off and making out with me – which is to say, it’s low.

      How does one spontaneously HAVE a mentality when they DONT HAVE the evidence to back it up?

      • max

        Disagree. something does change. you feel just a little bit shittier about yourself. I think of it this way, each girl you approach is like making a small investment on a stock. the stock goes up (ie you get the date) or the stock goes down (you get rejected) and then you sell, if it goes down a little, you still lose a little. Now take a little loss and multiply it by 10 or 100, so now you’ve got a lot of shitty experiences

        What, dude, you work on wall street or what? What’s with this stock issue. That your stack value goes down when you get rejected…how??? Its all in your head. its not like it gets writen n on, “rejected” or something.

        • skw

          I used to work on wall st. but how is that relevant?

          “That your stack value goes down when you get rejected…how???”

          No. you missed my point, it’s not YOUR stock value that goes down, it’s the amount of “currency” you have that get’s lowered, in this case currency is your feeling and confidence in your ability to attract women.

          The point is, each girl you approach, involves a little bit of emotional risk on your part, in finance, they call this “exposure” every time you buy a financial instrument, you’re taking a bit of exposure, even if you buy in the morning and sell 2 hours later, you’ve taken a little exposure. That’s the point Im making here.

          Yes, it’s all in my head, I know, but my head uses logic, my head uses facts. I would hope yours does too

          • http://Stocks tab123

            I understood your stock analogy but what you fail to consider is that just like major league hitters, a .300 hitter is considered a good hitter. But .700 of the times they don’t get a hit. Every stock pick isn’t a winner. The game is to cut your loses, its the cost of doing business, and let the winners run. If a girl rejects you especially early, move on, cut your loses and look for the next potential winner. You can take lots of small hits and you should because when you pick the right stock or girl it makes up for all the losses.

          • Marni Wing Girl

            Hey David,

            I like this analogy: and you’re right when you do pick that right woman for you, it will make up for all the loses.

            Marni :)

        • Marni Wing Girl

          Hey Max,

          I can totally get why you feel that way; but maybe not investing too much too soon will help it feel like a smaller gamble. If you lose a $1 bet, instead of a $1000, you can laugh it off a lot more easily.

          Marni :)

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Jon,

      I’ve always really loved this quote, “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” And totally agree that if you can see the ‘worst outcome’ as that you’re no better/ worse than before you did the approach- if anything you can reward yourself for taking action and doing it, then it will put you in a much better state of mind to walk up and say ‘hi’

      Marni :)

      • Dave

        Hey Marni,

        I had a question about a girl. So you understand where I’m coming from, I met this girl named Marie a long time ago and her first impression wasn’t very good at all. She had reacted immaturely to a situation and I was completely turned off, I stopped all contact with her. Recently I saw her with my friend, whom she is now dating, and she surprised me. When I was in a time of need she did a simple act of kindness and my perspective completely changed. I felt I misjudged her and I thanked her days later after learning of her name. Now about this pickle, I developed some feelings for her and suddenly it seems her boyfriend and I are hanging out a lot. I’ve convinced myself I would honor my friend and suppress the feelings I have and see how things go between them. Though I wanted to test her. Because simply I have been in a relationship in which I was unfaithful, I broke the heart of the only girl I ever loved I told myself I would never do that again. I want to test her to see if she really has that quality of faithfulness I guess my question is, how can I go about doing this without ruining the friendship between my friend and I and her and her boyfriend?
        So you this pickle I find myself in?

        • Marni Wing Girl

          Hey Dave

          well I think there’s a few important points here:

          - You can never predict the future. Whilst it’s great to have high standards for the women you date, if you search for an ideal people will often fall short. I think it’ll probably better going forward to give people a chance and then after a few dates if there really is a disconnect then leave it. You have to really get to know a person before you can make a call about whether they’d be good for you long term. Going into a relationship with the mindset of ‘testing’ someone isn’t too constructive: try to keep a more open mind going forward.

          - You need to take a step back from this one: as you need to know what feelings are valid and which are arising from the trick all of us human beings fall for of wanting what you don’t have!

          - There is no way that you can intervene in this relationship without hurting this woman, her boyfriend or both, so it is a seriosu step to take. If i was you I’d focus your romantic energy elsewhere and leave this situation to play out naturally.

          Good luck

          Marni :)

  • sandrospuahh

    Marni I like some of your stuff and liked the heading of the email but as I came oin here disagree with many of the many comments.

    I think this mindset of “rejection” being calm and passive in accepting what a woman sees me or woman tries to decide who I am, is complete BS* (BS*=bank statement).
    This is “great mindset” if you are low self esteem.
    this repeated rejection and responding calm and puppy dog is utter nonsense,very similar to 1000 sets = you will get good with women, more rejections more sex, 1000 crunches =6 pack abs;etc etc; this is typical seduction community advice Marni, nothing new here.

    Why do you tells us to be nice when a woman rejects a man?

    I bet you dont remember how many times you rejected guys who really liked you, even worse is you remember and like most women want a guy or any man to be nice and accept to your demands, even to a point of rejecting him, “he should be calm”.

    Cause as soon as you reject him, it took you less than 1 sec to drop him and delete from your head his existance.

    thats why you cant even remember,right.
    is this true of women? ;)

    this “be nice and calm “is passive psychlogical programming propagenda and sets from the start that guys are suppose to beg for women’s attention and act like a passive loser even if she misbehaves.
    bad bad advice.

    if I stay calm and not do anything then the whole roof will fall on my head If I didnt do anything about the water leaking.

    Marni,tell me when was the last time a guy you rejected stole your heart, what did he DO that made you want him eventhough you rejected him?

    tells us what works instead of the band aid solution.

    peace

  • Mark

    Agree with Marni and all the posts, and YES that includes skw’s. Sometimes, handling rejection well can lead to a women wanting you, of course it can, because by handling rejection well, in a way you are rejecting her by saying “ok I don’t really want you that badly”. By doing that and then getting another girl all over you, of course jealousy will kick in. Useful if youre looks and aura made you borderline with the girl you approached and possibly she wasnt ready to just accept in front of all her mates and “look like a slut”.

    However, generally speaking, if youre hot and a woman really wants you, they have you, mate – plain and simple. The “I can handle rejection like a REAL man” game is like second serve tennis, and I don’t know about you but Id rather be sending my first serve straight down for an ace…

    • sandrospuahh

      I agree with Mark,

      Ive had situations were instead of being calm and nice after a rejection, I turned it around in a matter of that same day having her seek rapport cause she made a social error or a misjudgement on why she rejected me.

      If I just reciting these “rejection is great mindset” then I wouldve have been proactive and just flood myself accepting this low self esteem mindset of a loser.

      • james

        But you failed to tell us what you did to “turn it around in a matter of that same day”

  • Bill O

    Marni – Hi.

    In the four years I have been approaching – both during the day and going out at night – I have been shot down two times.

    Its incredible how self talk can create scenario after scenario – and we walk away from opportunity (I admit it – I have many times! – but not so much any more!)- yet rejection hardly happens!
    I once approached a woman in a bar – pretending she was my “blind date” – this woman was the ONLY one out of the dozens I’ve done this to who told me she wanted to be left alone…..

    First line rejection is really no big deal…there is no real investment…

    What’s a big deal? Meeting someone from online…putting time and money into it…getting positive signals in return…then putting emotional energy into it – believing that second date you set up is going to work…..only to get flaked on with some silly excuse……

    This is what I said the last time it happened:
    Barb?!?….wow! – and you were second on my list! Damn!!
    Take Care!

    I would like to see your thoughts on this in one of your newsletters……

    - Bill

  • skw

    “The fact you were rejected means nothing to them. IT IS HOW YOU HANDLED THE REJECTION THAT COUNTS.”

    but it doesn’t mean nothing. If it means nothing to dance with her, why would I walk over and try in the first place? Walking away without a care in the world is therefore an inauthentic behavior.

    Are you suggesting I be inauthentic?

    That’s ok if you are, but let’s be honest about what you’re suggesting. I strive for an honest discussion, I hope you do too.

    This is why I don’t like instructions of “move your body language like this” or “act this way” what we should really be talking about is changing our mental state to a point where such body language NATURALLY ARISES. from a place of authenticity.

    Otherwise, to me, all those suggestions are like applying a thin layer of jelly over burnt toast.

    I’ll tell you a story, I was waiting in line to get tickets to a show, but it was total chaos, people all over the place, so this hot girl comes behind me and says, “do you mind if I get by you?” trying to use her hotness to make me move, I turned around, stared dead in that bitch’s face and said, “Very much so” then smiled.. as in.. no, your tits will not make me budge. She flinched a little, then said something like, “uh ok well I’ll go there” then she walked by me and brushed her tits against my back.

    Here’s the thing, in that moment, I wasn’t thinking to myself, “oooh Im gonna stand up to her so she’s attracted to me” I REALLY DIDNT GIVE A #$)(*#)@ whether she’d be attracted or not attracted to me. I had no intention of asking her out or anything after that, I REALLY AND TRULY to the core of my BONE didn’t give a FLYING #$)(@# about her.

    Since I’m not banned yet, Im going to ask a question, if the only way to attract someone is to reach this state of non-attachment, why in gods name would I ever approach or talk to a woman?

    • S

      SKW, bra you seriously need a major mental shift. You consistently observe women as if they’re the devil incarnate. They have only one desire when it comes to you. Destroy at all costs. Bey when you gonna grow up, you’re acting like a 3 yr old who’s having a serious temper tantrum.

      It’s all about “How you handle rejection” please boy, you’re not the first to be rejected, and you definitely won’t be the last. But the way you’re reacting is like everyone else is having the successes they desire “KUDOS by the ways” and your not getting any action.

      To bad bey, take your slices of humble pie and eat them all, then ask for seconds and thirds if you still haven’t learned to be a MAN. A woman is looking for a man, not a boy in a man’s body a MAN. A real MAN who knows how to conduct himself respectfully in public.

      A hot woman asking to jump the cue to stand beside and get a little further along in the line. Using her talents for her benefits, your reaction is you didn’t give a damn. Did you stop to think that maybe if your personality was more charming that you may have got some from her. If not a strip down in the toilets, her phone number, her name, something to build a rapport.

      Nah your reaction was “I DON’T CARE HOW HOT YOU ARE, I’M NOT GONNA BOW DOWN TO THIS SLUT” What was it, did some woman break your heart and leave you high and dry, and now you think it’s your God given right to treat all women like their dirt.

      News flash bey, a woman is intuitively tuned into your personality, they can sense without you saying a word exactly what your about. So don’t be surprised if your rejected, because they can sense your personality, and it seriously sucks.

      You come on here and you bad mouth Marni’s efforts to help us. You bring the heat boy you better damn well be able to handle it, because I can tolerate a hell of a lot of heat, and I will always be the first to meet you head to head.

      You try to use logic to defend your self in an apologetic manner, the same works for polemics, apologetics is all about defense, what do you think polemics is.

      From your comments, some chick left you, and for damn good reason, because you act like and definitely display the attitudes and characteristics of a snake. The best thing to do with a snake is Crush it’s Head.

      Sort yourself out, or get sorted out!

      S

      • http://rich_muffy@hotmail.com rich

        HEy skw,

        I woulda given her the spot “yeh sure……but ONLY if you sit next to me”

        But boy, you sound like you have alot of anger o girls. I don’t know if u were hurt or had some kinda raising, but you gotta release that pal.

        • skw

          I don’t know what this means. I mean I state facts and acknowledge the reality of the situation. I don’t see where this “you have a lot of anger..” bla bla comes from

          maybe you can explain why you think I have anger.

      • skw

        “bra you seriously need a major mental shift”

        I know, every mental shift I’ve had in the past has been triggerd by an external event.

        When you get around to translating your post into English, I’ll read and respond to it.

        • S

          On the contrary. every mental shift you have, is and will always be based on an internal mental perspective first, it’s not triggered by the external event, it’s created by your own personal values and interpretations. You know the values of good and bad, acceptable and unacceptable, pain and pleasure. These traits are already inherent in everyone from birth, but it’s how you express them that make you a “Prick” or a “Man”.

          Consider this; what if some other man treated your Momma with the same respect that you express about other women.

          Most of us do not idolize women, but we do have a healthy respect for them. You, in your expressions it’s stated clearly you don’t respect at all. You have the morbid understanding that women are “Dogs” to be kicked and beaten nothing more. If I’m wrong I’m not far off from the bulls eye.

          How’s that for some English.

          S

          • skw

            “On the contrary. every mental shift you have, is and will always be based on an internal mental perspective first, it’s not triggered by the external event, it’s created by your own personal values and interpretations. You know the values of good and bad, acceptable and unacceptable, pain and pleasure. These traits are already inherent in everyone from birth, but it’s how you express them that make you a “Prick” or a “Man”.”

            Disagree. Just think about your experience flying pre 9/11 and post 9/11. I’d say 9/11 had a lot to do with that perceptual shift, wouldn’t you?

            I agree personal values and interpretations are always at play. they ALWAYS are. If 2 planes flew into the Dharamsala (where the Dalai Lama lives) and 3,000 tibetans were killed. The Dalai Lama would be calling for compassion towards Al Qaida, he wouldn’t call them Evil-Doers.

            Don’t come at me “it’s all in your interpretation” yes I get it. But can we admit as a society certain interpretations are pretty universal across the board, because they coincide with a basic understand of morality and ethics. ?

            The mental shifts I’ve had (the significant ones, and the ones with women) have ALL been accompanied by external events. ALL OF THEM. You understand that?

            “How’s that for some English.”

            Much better.

            “If I’m wrong I’m not far off from the bulls eye.”

            I don’t see where you’re coming up with any of this, what basis do you make these kinds of claims?

          • F

            Re: “Just think about your experience flying pre 9/11 and post 9/11. I’d say
            9/11 had a lot to do with that perceptual shift, wouldn’t you?”

            I hated it equally and there is no change: I hate flying and I only will if I absolutely have no choice, period (before and after). Do I really have to remind you of Lockerbie? And do I have to remind that terrorism was originally a state sponsored ideology? Hint: The Reign of Terror (a.k.a. The Terror) during the French Revolution. Put another way: it’s nothing new and has existed long before any of us were alive.

            Re: “Don’t come at me “it’s all in your interpretation” yes I get it. But
            can we admit as a society certain interpretations are pretty universal
            across the board, because they coincide with a basic understand of
            morality and ethics. ?”

            No. Because morals and ethics differ from person to person. Also if you want to use that logic then try asking a very religious family about certain ideas/beliefs that they hold and then ask the same questions to a non religious family (if not flat out reject religion period). I think you can come up with a few examples with that one.

            Now if you want to talk about external stimuli, perceptions and senses then that is another story entirely. Notwithstanding hallucinations and illusions (they are not the same) if you physically hear something there is an external reason. But how you interpret it can vary from person to person. It’s not unheard of (pardon the pun) for people who are deaf who also are in a psychotic episode to hear voices (also keep in mind that it is not a requirement that deaf comes at birth and no other time).

  • skw

    “The “I can handle rejection like a REAL man” game is like second serve tennis, and I don’t know about you but Id rather be sending my first serve straight down for an ace”

    Beautiful analogy. Careful Mark, do not let too much honest discussion seep through, it may get you banned.

    • http://rich_muffy@hotmail.com rich

      not “raising” meant to use upbringing. Im from the caribbean. we don’t talk good here lol

    • Ardiana the adventurer

      “The mental shifts I’ve had (the significant ones, and the ones with women) have ALL been accompanied by external events. ALL OF THEM. You understand that?”

      You may have read this one already but Scot McKay from X & Y newsletter has a theory against the false teaching out there about “it being Not your fault”. The idea is that you have 2 choices in your life where ur at:

      You can accept what the “gurus” are telling you and blame women or “external factors” for all of your problems. Thus you relinquish all responsibility and also the power of fixing all these things and instead make yourself a Victim (which is a turn off for women btw)

      OR

      you can Accept full responsibility for all the errors with women. By acknowledging you were the cause of these problems to begin with, you give yourself the power of fixing them all. I found it is a much better place to be in a position of power than to be a windbag for women’s whims!

  • skw

    “The “I can handle rejection like a REAL man” game is like second serve tennis, and I don’t know about you but Id rather be sending my first serve straight down for an ace”

    Beautiful analogy. Quite possibly one of the most erudite statements made on this blog.

    • http://www.gkdating.com GK

      I like the first-serve analogy, and of course we all want to bring our best game. But to further the analogy, what if we’re just playing on the wrong surface?

      For instance, Pete Sampras is one of the top 5 tennis players of all time. Yet he struggled on clay courts and never won the French Open.

      Were there things he could do to improve his chances on clay? Yes, and I’m sure he worked hard at it. But in the end, clay just wasn’t for him. So he just kicked butt at everything else.

      There will be women who you just won’t pull, either for logistical reasons (she’s in love) or simply because you’re not her type. This is why we can’t worry about the outcome when first meeting someone.

  • dave310

    Skw, why are you so worried about getting banned? (Does that happen a lot on Marni’s comment boards? I’m guessing it doesn’t.) I really don’t think Marni was saying women enjoy rejecting men, although I’m sure there are some that do. In reference to that Einstein quote, we’re not doing the exact same thing over and over again. For one thing, we’re approaching DIFFERENT women… and we’re switching it up and trying new things and new places. You can learn from rejection and try something a little different the next time. You have to understand that a lot of the time it has nothing to do with you… the woman doesn’t even know you so you shouldn’t take it personally. (Sure it sucks to not get everything you want in life, but that could get boring after a while.) Isn’t there also a famous quote about falling down seven times and getting up eight? I feel your pain, sjw, but you seem to have this bitterness toward women. Did a roving pack of women kill your entire family when you were a small child?

  • Ira

    Marni, you are so right. I met this woman online (yes I know it’s a slightly different scenario), and we had a great time talking through IM for hours at a time. The problem was that I’m in NY and she is in Toronto.
    Anyway, after a while she started saying that she wanted to come to NY and stay with me for a while and see hoe things go. Obviously, I was completely OK with this. But then she wanted me to pay the entire airfare. Now, I wouldn’t have minded paying for half of it but this kind of got me suspicious. I guess that my divorce a few years ago had something to do with that.
    The next thing I know she is telling me that she doesn’t want to pursue this any further, so I stopped contacting her.
    Then, out of the blue, last week she emails me and tells me that she realized that she had made a mistake and wanted to pick up things where we had left off. This is after about 3 months of not trying to contact her. She is now willing to pay her own airfare and come here to NY. So I guess that by showing her that I was perfectly alright with her decision to not pursue things, i made her reconsider that decision.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Ira,

      I definitely think you made the right call on that one: and I’m glad that by demonstarting a little strength of character, this woman has come around.

      Good luck!

      Marni :)

  • skw

    “Skw, why are you so worried about getting banned?”

    I’ve been threatened before.

    “I really don’t think Marni was saying women enjoy rejecting men, although I’m sure there are some that do.”

    I’d agree with that. the entire “friendzone” is a way to not really reject, in a sense.

    “we’re not doing the exact same thing over and over again”

    Sure, I agree, I mean it’s not a controlled scientific experiment. Although I think you and I can both agree that there are over-arching similarities between women in what they’re looking for (ie. this blog aims to elucidate those things)

    “You can learn from rejection and try something a little different the next time. ”

    See but you can’t have it both ways. I liken this to when I was having my screenplays evaluated, if we’re going to say it’s completely subjective, the idea of learning something from rejection is useless. What can I learn? if I tweak something in that direction for the next girl, maybe it’s too much for her.

    ” You have to understand that a lot of the time it has nothing to do with you… the woman doesn’t even know you so you shouldn’t take it personally.”

    The point is she knows enough about me to reject/accept, and she’s rejecting me, and accepting someone else she equally “doesn’t know” Fine, if it doesnt have anything to do with me, then I guess I’m just plain unlucky that all the women I talk to just happen to have completely tangential reasons for rejecting me, that have nothing to do with me, but yet still yield me a rejected status.

    “I feel your pain, sjw, but you seem to have this bitterness toward women. Did a roving pack of women kill your entire family when you were a small child?”

    No, a roving pack of women treated me with respect, found me attractive as an adolescent, never once mocked or made fun of me, feigned sexual interest in me…. and I just decided for the hell of it come on here and blabber about how I’m continually rejected.

  • Mark

    Skw if you do get banned I’ll leave my email here but its unlikely to happen. I mean you could just come in under another alias on another computer – ha! the beauty of the internet!

    As a fellow Canadian, Marni knows looks matter, cause Canadian girls are quite shallow, ironically UNLESS they come from Southern Ontario where the girls person for person are way hotter than the guys and they must simply settle or be alone. But here in Norway where I am now youve got an average looking Canadian girl with a hot Norwegian guy – wtf – and girls are hot in Norway but guys even hotter – so its all supply and demand. Similar phenomenon with Eastern Europeans in their home coutnries and then in London. Also the reason why hot Australian girls are shallow b##¤&es at home.

    How does this all relate to the topic? My mate Daniel once had a great quote for me: “To avoid the b”#¤shit” make yourself irrsistible”. Id be the first to admit that both skw and I probably destroy the minimal chances we get with negativity and bad inner game. Guilty as charged. But again, second serve tennis is a mess, a lottery and you’ll never get good feedback to whether its looks or personality, etc, etc. To gain confidence and be a consistent winner, you need to have a good first serve and get the quick easy points soem of the time. That doesnt happen and youre struggling- common sense really. And the one way to get a good first serve is LOOKS.
    Now respect to PUAS like Jon Sinn and Ryan DRH for realising this and now moving past the old PUA nonsense to giving advice on improving your looks. This I can deal with and in fact I recommend as its quite useful.

  • http://www.FixYourGolfSliceToday.com Troy Vayanos

    Great advice Marnie, I guess what you are saying is that you become mentally stronger each time. By handling the rejection with confidence you are telling the women that you are okay and comfortable moving on and confident that you will find someone else.

    Probably not what most women expect to see.

    Cheers

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Troy,

      it’s probably not what most women expect to see: so when we do see it, it shows some very attractive qualities!

      Marni :)

  • Michael Navarro

    Gentlemen, just do it. What does not kill you will make you strong. I have been talking to all kinds of people just as Marni prescribes, but now I am approaching women I am attracted to. Some have been receptive and some have not to the point where they understood my game. So what? The above exercise will give you strength to deal with rejection which will happen no matter how good looking or suave you are. Go do it. I, a shy and once depressed and forlorn man, know I will.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Michael

      Great to hear about how things are improving for you: and I agree what doesn’t kill you, does make you stronger

      Marni :)

  • Stephen

    Marni, thanks for the nudges in the right direction.

    HUA – Hear Understood Acknowledged, for the advice, given me that extra helping hand to approach this woman, we like each other can tell in the way she flirts with me, now going to take it to the 1 to 1 phase, get to know her better, and see what happens.

    If no “bump n grind” happens from it, that’s cool I at least made the effort, and won’t have any regrets on my death bed.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Stephen,

      living your life with no regrets is one of the things that makes us feel great as people! Glad you HUA

      Marni :)

  • al

    in my opiniong is not rejection we get rejected everyday. is the fear of losing some thing like besfriend or the girl we like so much oor a thing we all value.
    helful imformation marni I’v just started reading your book thanks

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Glad you like it Al.

      It’s definitely a great thing to know what to value- and remember how you feel about yourself should be very high up on that list!

  • Scott W

    Thanks Marni. Good reminder to guys not to pin their self-esteem on an outcome. When you first meet someone, there is no real rejection. If it doesn’t go well, it didn’t click. There have been many times in my life that a “rejection” by a woman or a prospective employer cleared the way for something much better.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      hey Scott,

      there are definitely a lot of blessings in disguise out there! And often the experience of ‘doing things’ makes us feel great in the process

      Marni :)

  • christofer

    “GO OUT AND GET REJECTED 10 TIMES THIS WEEKEND!!! ”

    Marni,going out and getting rejected by
    100 women…let alone 10…takes very
    little effort.One of the easiest things to do.

    However,I understand your point getting to the point that you become desensitized (to being rejected) and as a result
    become fearless.

    Yes,many men do not approach women out out the fear of being humiliated publicly;
    and receiving a look of absolute disgust
    & contempt from a woman.

    There are also some who do not approach
    because of self-esteem/confidence issues;
    Not knowing what to say…feeling that
    they would not be able to sustain a woman’s interest/attraction level.

    Many of us feel that if we have one comma
    out of place or do not come off like some
    one out of a romantic-comedy that we will
    be instantaneously dismissed

  • dave310

    I hope you don’t get banned SKW, I think you’re adding something of value in your posts… and a lot of guys can probably relate to what you’re feeling. PS – I’m glad your family wasn’t killed by a pack of savage women.

    On a slightly different note, I just watched an interesting video from this guy James Marshall from Australia. I had never heard of him before, but I liked his low energy approach to meeting women. (Sure Jame’s is a good-looking fella with an australian accent, but I think the info he shares could be helpful to all men. Plus he’s an entertaning speaker.) I’ll post a youtube link of his hour and half talk at the 21 convention last year, if that’s allowed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33rsHCWgISI&feature=player_embedded

  • Dustan

    I have been a professional sales man since I was eighteen, after reading this post I used the same math I use to track my sales and closing ratios. I estimate that in the past five years i have gotten close to 2000 phone numbers. From that I have gotten 5 dates, not going to post the number of women I have slept with, and two gfs. I’m no stranger to rejection. Can I be omitted from this experiment lol.

  • Miodrag

    Screw her!? Excellent piece of advice. If a woman rejects just go screw her brains out. It would definately make her accept you if you do the things the right way. She would never reject you again.

  • S

    To SKW,
    “Just think about your experience flying pre 9/11 and post 9/11. I’d say 9/11 had a lot to do with that perceptual shift, wouldn’t you?”

    Nah I wouldn’t that was fear based, fear starting from an internal POV. Then extremely over blown by the media. People in general allowed extrenal circumstances to control their reactions, you use 9/11 as your argument point. Excellent resource for basing my argument. 9/11 divided people and created heroes. The heroes took to heart the ramifications of the event, and decided to stand for what is right. “You can learn something here about how to give and treat respect women”

    The people who decided to live in fear of being hurt or worse (exactly how you behave when it comes to women)found it extremely difficult to get passed those
    fears. The difference between the courageous people of that event and the cowards (this I must say, as hurtful and insulting as it may seem)the courageous stood for what is right.

    In regards to using the Dalai Lama for your argument, I reckon you’d be wrong. Even if he did react that way, a lot of people would see it as noble. That specific man who has a high level of influence towards those people and doesn’t take aggressive action against his adversaries for such an abominable action to his people. That tells me one thing loud and clear, he’s not as peace loving as he comes across, he’s a drop nuts. Because there is a time to express love and kindness, and there is a time to express righteous rage.

    “The Dalai Lama would be calling for compassion towards Al Qaida, he wouldn’t call them Evil-Doers.”

    This kind of argument tells me that your beloved Dalai Lama is deluded. 3000 people get wiped off the face of the planet, and you think he’s not gonna call them evil-doers. Then based on your argument, he’s an advocate for mass-murder.

    “But can we admit as a society certain interpretations are pretty universal across the board, because they coincide with a basic understand of morality and ethics. ? ”

    Nah we can’t, because of many factors that affect people, beginning with their interpretations of one event. Just as a diamond has many facets to its structure, everybody sees one situation from their own perspective, and interpret that situation based on their own understandings of how they think something should operate. It’s called an individual POV, that makes everybody unique. Our thoughts are like our finger prints.

    “The mental shifts I’ve had (the significant ones, and the ones with women) have ALL been accompanied by external events. ALL OF THEM. You understand that? ”

    Yeah I understand that easily, now here’s your problem, regardless of them being external, you still interpreted the situations from your own perspective, starting from an internal dialogue, that you think is correct to handling how you interact. Here’s another one, you can’t get passed the memory of it happening, and you carry your rejections around like a one armed carries around his limitations. These are just memories and yet you still treat them as if the are happening as we speak. Your mental shifts are NOT ALL accompanied by external events, they are nothing more than shadows in your mind, now if you still think about those shadows and treat them as real, what else is hiding in the dark?

    Your an intelligent man, I can see that straight off the bat, but your also an idiot, because you can’t see passed your own nose.

    You don’t need a psychiatrist, you don’t need a doctor even. You need Jesus because He’s the only one that can help you Brah.

    S

  • skw

    Lemme ask you a simple question brah

    Between two scenarios:

    1. A girl responds to your date request, “oh, hmm, you know, let’s hang out tomorrow, bring some friends, I’ll bring the guy Im dating..”

    2. A girl responds by coming over and sucking your dick like she’s just been bit by a cobra and your dick has the anti-venom in it.

    which one is easier to “interpret” as she’s actually liking you and into you? Does your intelligent, Jesus-pushing ass grasp the point, brah?

    • S

      SKW, you’re an idiot, you’re trying to use proper grammar for keeping ahead in this argument, then you make your point but don’t allow people to reply.

      What you think everything you have to say is all that should be heard.

      Why would I want to read anything your dalai lama writes.

      Monks being beaten and torutured by Chinese Warriors.

      That’s old school but still new. Try Christianity. Beheadings, burned alive on poles, thrown to lions, bear food, nakedness. Please Buddhism (if that’s what he preaches), is nothing but a coward’s way of handling life. And then still told to pray for them, and literally going back into the lions den to try and save those who hate them with a passion.

      Buddhism, is a feeble attempt at showing the true qualities of humanity. But since your using buddhism for your arguments why aren’t you practicing what you preach towards women. It’s some of the reasons why you’re angry.

      You try and come across as “Holier than thou”, but truth of the matter is your nothing but a hypocrite hiding behind some archaic literature to prove yourself.

      If you’ve got the balls allow me to reply to any and every reply here after, and nah Marni wouldn’t need to get another 3 servers to handle the load.

      Can you Buddhist pushing rejected hide keep an intelligent, civilized conversation.

      Let me know

      S

    • S

      What’s your point?

      Do you think she’s only going to come over and do me for some anti-venom, brah she don’t need to be bit by a snake, and I still give her the life pumping goodness she wants. If you don’t figgure it out I’ll tell you that’s my answer to question 2.

      As for question 1, you’ve been burned brah and still you can’t get over it. What you think you gonna come on here and find sympathy for your problems.

      You see you try to manipulate me into your little web, by only giving me options where I have to answer to you, not gonna happen because I can take that situation and use it how I please.

      But in regards to the first question who was the man, you bff.

      “You make things much more simpler, you’re just an idiot, that for one doesn’t know the difference between ‘you’re’ and ‘your’, but more relevantly here, can’t even build a simple logical argument and answer basic questions:”

      Define logical, define universal, because 9/11 didn’t really have that big of an impact than you think, People were flying days after the event, as if it didn’t even affect them. People were flying getting busier living than worrying about some problem that really is out of their control.

      “but I said certain perspectives are fairly universal”

      Fairly universal, no such thing: You want logical let’s get logical. It either is universal or not at all. Universal if you don’t understand it’s interpretation means = “Including everything”, not fairly universal as you say, because using the word fairly degrades the statement from absolute to relative.

      You want to use logical arguments, get your logic straight before you try and attack me with logic.

      How’s about your Buddhist pushing rejected idiotic mind get it straight and try practicing what you preach. Why don’t you and your beloved dalai lama go smoke a peace pipe and talk a whole lot of rubbish about expressing “Compassion” to people, WOMEN included.

      The arguments you are using are revealing you as a hypocrite with poison for blood.

      S

  • skw

    “I hope you don’t get banned SKW, I think you’re adding something of value in your posts… ”

    Thanks for that. Yea, I’d like to think under the perceived vitriol there’s something of value in there.

  • Bas

    Oh, I know what it means and how it feels being rejected and, Marni, it’s true, the more you get rejected the less it feels bad and not because we like it, but taking in count that you’ll soon find someone that will accept you that’s good, especially if you kept trying to approach hot and quality women.

    I recently felt rejected by this one woman that told me to just be friends right now as she was having many problems, then I told her there was no problem and now she keeps texting, talking to me and is not ignoring me as I thought she would.

    Thanks Marni, keep it up.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Bas,

      glad to hear that by handling rejection well that things are improving for you!

      Keep it up, Marni :)

  • Parkey

    I almost never get rejected, because to my mind in order to reject me a woman needs to know me.

    Not every woman I talk to throws herself at me.
    - Some women aren’t in a position to have me in their lives, due to boyfriend, personal issues, etc.
    - Some women aren’t nice enough people for me to want anyway.
    - Some women are too boring as individuals to appreciate me.
    - Some women are under social pressure because of the environment they’re in.
    - Some women even act aloof or cold because they are too shy and self-conscious to be receptive to me.

    Rejection was only a problem when I lived in a world where interacting with attractive women was a rare event. Since I realised that women are everywhere as I go about my day to day life and it’s quite okay to just go and talk to them, now I have that kind of abundance mentality, I worry less about outcomes. The moment you stop needing a particular outcome, that’s when it comes to you.

  • skw

    Parkey-

    whew. am I glad to see you. full sentences, coherent thought. Must be a good cop/bad cop thing.

    I understand exactly what you’re saying, what you’re saying is your threshold is just higher.

    Look, I get that no woman will come right up to you, open up a scroll, and state,

    “I hereby reject you because you are simply not good enough for me, and I have reached that conclusion due to reasons X, Y, and all of which pertain to you personally”

    What Im saying is- let’s say a number of women over a period of time have one or more of these bulletted points, you’re telling me it’s a complete outlandish idea for a guy who’s been the recipient of these results to think – “wow am I just unlucky or is there something wrong about me?”

    As for worrying less about out comes and abundance mentality,

    I’m asking you the same question I’ve asked many. How do you spontaneously “get” an abundance mentality if you’ve really, truly previously had a non-abundance mentality?

    My hershey choc example, imagine if you’ve never had hershey choc, you know there are many stores that sell it, but each store you walk into, nope none for you. how do you walk around thinking… “yeah but I know what it’s like to have hershey choc” if you never actually have had it?

  • Parkey

    The short answer is that it’s very difficult, it’s hard work and it’s not an overnight change, but it can be done.

    I know what it’s like feeling you’re getting older, no women ever like you, ever, it’s not fair and surely this isn’t normal or natural. Why me.

    You just have to break it down and move forward tiny step by tiny step, and some days, some months, you’ll feel you’re going backward, but you never give up. What did I do wrong? How could I do this better? Take advice from kind, generous insightful people like Marni who want to help you, burn through the discomfort you feel when they critique you and recognise it for the revelation that it is.

    Never think “this is how things are”, think “this is what I am going to make things become”.

    It gets better. Very slowly at first but over time the momentum just builds and builds, and it feels amazing.

  • skw

    “It gets better. Very slowly at first but over time the momentum just builds and builds, and it feels amazing.”

    If you say so, but you’ll excuse me if I say a lot of this stuff sounds like hallmark card stuff. Meaning, I’m sure it’s well intentioned, but it’s rhetorical fluff.

    Let me ask you a more pointed question:

    Do you agree that an external result is necessary for a belief to REALLY shift, and I don’t mean just this nice little “self talk” we all do to psych ourselves up. I mean a REAL shift.

  • Parkey

    No.

  • skw

    Then I don’t think we can really have a discussion. because that is a major disconnect, and there’s no reason for me to believe my statement is untrue.

    If you are unable to acknowledge that there is indeed a difference between the shift that occurs given an actual tangible external result vs any kind of “internal shifting” self talk stuff that we try for ourselves absent the external result, then sorry to say, you’re out to lunch.

  • Parkey

    You need to make the results. If you hold results responsible for making you, well, you’re going to be waiting a long time.

  • skw

    “You need to make the results. If you hold results responsible for making you, well, you’re going to be waiting a long time.”

    That’s not what Im saying.

    I’m not saying the results are responsible. I’m saying the having actual tangible results allows you to have a DIFFERENT, MORE SECURE belief in your ability, than not having results.

  • skw

    “You need to make the results.”

    Before making the results, don’t you need to believe you can make the results? and in order to believe you can make the results, you either:

    1. Shouldve had results already
    2. Believe in your ability to make results, if you follow a set procedure that has worked in the past for obtaining results (and that’s where guys with looks, money, status, power, prestige, etc… come into play, that’s the set procedure that has worked in the past)

  • Parkey

    That’s why it’s difficult. It takes faith to make each small step forward.

  • skw

    Faith:

    according to websters, “firm belief in something for which there is no proof”

    So just so I get this straight, you’re advocating (or suggesting that it’s even possible) to believe in something without any supporting information (I wont use the word proof, because that’s absolute)

  • Parkey

    Yes.

    I had to believe that what I was doing would attract women, even though all the evidence of my whole life told me women never want me. Step by step, one small improvement at a time.

    You have to take your self worth from what you believe you can achieve, as opposed to what you think external evidence tells you, otherwise nothing will change.

    I didn’t have any evidence that I’m the sort of guy who can approach a beautiful woman, talk to her for 15 minutes, make her laugh an smile and come away with her phone number before I went out and did it. In fact before last year all the women I ever cold approached got creeped out by me. So what? I believed I could improve.

    Have faith you can do it, fix the issues, do things that have never happened for you before.

  • skw

    I agree with you, however I think you drastically underestimate the need for external result, these so called “one small improvements” must be externally felt and verified. Ie. you need to have evidence that you’re indeed “getting better”

    think of it like building a brick wall. you lay one brick at a time. and focus on that one brick. but let’s say you lay 20 bricks, and for whatever reason each brick gets knocked down, so after 20, only one still stands. It’s kind of hard to continue “having faith”

    “I had to believe that what I was doing would attract women, even though all the evidence of my whole life told me women never want me.”

    You still haven’t told me what allowed you to have that belief. and I mean firmly.

  • skw

    “You still haven’t told me what allowed you to have that belief. and I mean firmly.”

    And if your answer is, “I just did” then this statement of yours is not as absolute as you make it sound:

    “even though all the evidence of my whole life told me women never want me”

    if it was so easy to just pop in the belief you could attract women, then you never truly had the belief they would never want you. Which is a good thing, but does put you and I in different camps in terms of experiences.

  • Parkey

    It wasn’t easy to pop new beliefs into my head. It was, is, f***ing hard work.

    The external results are just your feedback, not the source of your energy. Take your experience of laying those bricks, learn what made the twentieth one stand. Lay 20 more. This time maybe you might get two bricks standing. Lay 20 more. Ask a builder for advice. Lay 20 more.

    Again and again and again.

  • skw

    “It was, is, f***ing hard work.”

    hard work implies a process. but earlier you made it seem as if it was a single-point decision. so which is it?

    “Take your experience of laying those bricks, learn what made the twentieth one stand.”

    I tried, the brick didn’t get back to me.

    “Lay 20 more. This time maybe you might get two bricks standing.”

    I tried, none stuck

    “Lay 20 more. Ask a builder for advice. Lay 20 more.”

    I tried, none stuck, the builders just say lay more.

  • skw

    “The external results are just your feedback, not the source of your energy”

    those two aren’t mutually exclusive. Feedback reinforces your energy, and makes it stronger. In fact, I’d say feedback is a vital, even necessary component for maintaining “energy”

    I know I can kick ass on most math problems. why? because I’ve solved them in the past.

  • Parkey

    Single decision to subscribe to a process of continuous self improvement. I believe that once you’re on it results are inevitable.

    The only thing holding you back is you. Until you sort that out none of us can help you.

  • john

    Heres my story

    So i start talking to this girl we have a good tme and everything and the next day i as her for her number,, note tht before this she gave me a hug,, so she said i font give my number to strangers… so i turned it around and said but u give hugs to strangers,, i have jus turned the rejection around,, after she days nothng and walks off….. i dnt have her number and we dnt talk anymore

  • Parkey

    For some reason you’re trying to make it far, far more complicated than it is.

    At the end of the day it’s a bunch of skills. How do you learn anything for the first time? How did you learn to walk if every time you tried to start with you fell on your face? At the moment you’re totally incompetent in these skills, but if you practice you get better.

    It. Is. That. Simple.

  • skw

    we’re not talking about skills. we’re talking about a statement you made:

    “I had to believe that what I was doing would attract women, even though all the evidence of my whole life told me women never want me”

    and another statement you made:

    “It wasn’t easy to pop new beliefs into my head. It was, is, f***ing hard work.”

    The first statement implies that you were able to simply snap into a firm belief that you were attractive contradictory to all evidence in front of you that you were not.

    The second statement implies that it was a process, which by definition has steps.

    The two are contradicting each other.

    It. Is. That. Simple.

  • Parkey

    Not really a contradiction. Set yourself a goal that is only just beyond your comfort and experience. Something that isn’t too outlandish from where you are. Do it. Collect favourable experiences to re-set your baseline of reality. Rinse and repeat.

    Women never wanted me. Ever.

    I started out with simple goals like becoming more comfortable socially, or being liked by women as a dance partner. Finding environments where I’m constantly around women so that I never get hung up on just one.

    I moved on to being able to approach a woman from cold and make her smile. Learning to connect with them.

    Nowadays it’s about actually going on dates. Including tonight, a beautiful little blonde woman I met on a train at the weekend.

    Small irrational leap, as small as it needs to be. New experiences and skills. Acclimatise. Repeat -ie process.

  • skw

    “I started out with simple goals like becoming more comfortable socially, or being liked by women as a dance partner. Finding environments where I’m constantly around women so that I never get hung up on just one.”

    So, at this time, did you subscribe to this statement or not:

    “I had to believe that what I was doing would attract women, even though all the evidence of my whole life told me women never want me”

  • Mark

    This discussion simply proves that the game is too complex. As all women want different things, I would say to just maximise both looks and game (yes, this is a note of the bleeding obvious).

    I’m at the point where Im so clueless that I may just save up my hard earned cash for intensive work with a team of people. Ones that know all about looks, style and game and can give straight answers for individual successes or rejections. Yes, we can do this “only remember the positives” and small steps stuff but at the end of the day a loss is a loss. You can be proud of your effort but you want to improve. In some cases, its looks and in soem personality. And I wana know exactly why in each situation to the nth degree (ie. was it my walking style? Did I say something rude but NOT funny at a crucial time? etc. etc.) There is a fine line between winning and losing in many situations.

    On a separate note, as time goes on, women become more shallow as a % of society. And I think that is not totally a bad thing. May encourage more of us guys to focus on maximising our looks and being fitter and healthier people…

  • Parkey

    Yes I subscribed.

    Others told me this process works and I saw it work for them. I am telling you it is working for me.

    You have to build it up in stages. Took me about 15 months to go from helpless and clueless through to being able to confidently approach a woman, get atteaction, ask for her number, go on a date with her, physically escalate and spend about an hour on and off kissing her. Would never have happened a year ago, but I’m a different person now.

    Small belief change/challenge -> Action -> Small Result -> Feedback. Repeat. Leads to MASSIVE change over time.

  • skw

    Again, you’re contradicting yourself.

    in the beginning of your message you say:

    “Yes I subscribed”

    in reference to this statement:

    ““I had to believe that what I was doing would attract women, even though all the evidence of my whole life told me women never want me””

    then you go on to say:

    “You have to build it up in stages”

    how does one believe something in stages? Either you believe it or you don’t.

    “Small belief change/challenge -> Action -> Small Result -> Feedback. Repeat. Leads to MASSIVE change over time.”

    Finally after 50 messages you acknowledge the importance of FEEDBACK in the “process” of establishing a belief (although you haven’t fully convinced me whether it’s a process or a decision)

    How about this one:

    Small challenge -> Action -> no result -> Repeated Action -> Still no Result -> Belief that was previously decided, immediately flips back. Repeat

    Leads to MASSIVE disappointment over time.

  • Parkey

    Decrease your step size. Get the basics, like good social skills, sorted out first. I had to.

    It sounds like you’re trying to build a skyscraper by just constructing the top 20 floors. Then saying it’s impossible because it keeps falling down.

  • skw

    The question I’m asking you is regarding belief, on the one hand you’re saying you subscribed to it, (suggesting an absolute state change) on the other hand you’re saying it’s something you build over time, as a process or a skyscraper.

    It’s a simple question, can you answer it? If the answer is no, then say so. No shame in that.

  • Parkey

    Yes, I believed that if started learning how to do something I will eventually be very good at it. It is a learning process, so it takes time and you have to start with the basics.

    You’re trying to rationalise that this, like everything else, can’t work for you, as a substitute for taking action.

    You’re intelligent enough to make this process work if you really wanted it to. It’s a shame you don’t.

  • skw

    “Yes, I believed that if started learning how to do something I will eventually be very good at it.”

    So then you didn’t have this belief:

    “““I had to believe that what I was doing would attract women, even though all the evidence of my whole life told me women never want me”

    contradictory to what you said.

    ” as a substitute for taking action.”

    I’ve gone blue in the face telling you I have taken action, only that my action has not yielded any positive results, only women that want to be “friends”

    I dont consider them results.

    “You’re intelligent enough to make this process work if you really wanted it to. It’s a shame you don’t.”

    I know I am. but intelligence unfortunately doesn’t take you far in this game. I didn’t have the benefit of great looks when it mattered, and just have been playing catch up ever since.

    After all the self-talk mumbo jumbo settles, fact remains I’m embarassingly behind the curve. Marni talked about making out with a guy when she was 18. If the whole world is at level 10 and you’re still struggling with level 1… well you’ll only know how that feels when you’re there.. which you’re not.

    If you want me to believe otherwise, I’ll need some cold hard facts to back them up.

  • skw

    “You’re trying to rationalise that this,”

    Aren’t you and Marni and the like doing exactly the same?

    Saying that it’s a ‘learning process’ and a ‘skill’ ? doesn’t that imply there’s some kind of homogenous female population that generally behaves and responds a certain way?

    Any time you say… “women like it when….” doesn’t that mean you’re generalizing, and rationalizing about how to act to get a certain response from women?

    Why are my rational thoughts so bad but yours so noble?

  • Parkey

    Yeah yeah floors 60-80 of the skw tower keep falling to the ground, no matter how many times you helicopter them into place. Got it.

    What about the foundations? Do you have female friends? Do you socialise with or around women? Do you talk to women often? Can you talk to a woman without the need to acquire her?

    Do you have friends?

    What competence level are you starting from?

  • skw

    I dont believe men and women can be friends. They can be “friendly” to each other, but not “friends” Especially if that friendship is offered as a consolation prize (as it is for me) for something bigger – ie a sexual relationship.

    I can do all that stuff you said. I get nervous only at the though of taking it to a sexual, relationship, etc. level.

    Of course I can talk to a woman without the need to acquire her, but isn’t the entire blue blazes f*cking reason we’re here is to to talk to women that we want to acquire?

    I can imagine you running a boxing gym, guy walks in and you say, “hey, can you walk into the ring without wanting to win?”

    I have fewer single friends, most are married, I’ve hit that age when most are.

    So the women younger than me see me as a dirty old guy, and the women my age have been drilled more than an Iraqi oil field, so they’re not looking to hold any hands if you get my drift.

  • Parkey

    Well use your own intelligence to work out how to break down your problems into manageable pieces.

    There’s a massive difference between “attract” and “acquire” by the way.

    If you’re out to acquire a woman you’re basically coming from a place of: “I need you, please please please like me so I can have you. I will manipulate this situation any way I can so you’re forced to like me.”

    Attraction is different: “I want you, I desire you. I am here because I think I think I will enjoy talking to you, and making you feel good. If you’re not interested, meh, too bad for you; I’ll go and talk to her instead.”

  • skw

    “I want you, I desire you. I am here because I think I think I will enjoy talking to you, and making you feel good. If you’re not interested, meh, too bad for you; I’ll go and talk to her instead.”

    I’ve had this attitude but when you do the “I’ll go talk to her instead” thing 100 times, it gets kind of wearing. Too bad for all the women that have rejected me? eventually it gets to be too bad for me.

    Also, I don’t know if I can make her feel good. I dont have that wonderful feedback that took you so long to acknowlege the value of. I can certainly try, but I can’t believe I can do it. For example in Marni’s story of the guy that screwed her in the hostel, I’d ask how many girls did he screw before that point? if it’s alot, he knew exactly what to do – which is why experience is so important.

    “Well use your own intelligence to work out how to break down your problems into manageable pieces.”

    I’ve done that, however, Im saying I cannot have the belief you’ve stated that you had to have. or maybe now you’re renegging on that saying you didnt have it. you still haven’t cleared that up.

  • Mark

    I think we need to put skw’s issues in perspective here. Parkey is correct when he says that SOCIAL SKILLS are a key building block. I agree with skw that female friends, especially hot ones, is not ideal, but definitely find some way of practising social skills even if its regular little chunks of minor-league flirting with shop workers, etc. Btw my social skills are crap, I was diagnosed with Aspergers as a kid and the only thing preventing me from being one of the greatest in the game other than height, being average looking, bad posture, etc is SOCIAL SKILLS (note how I say SOCIAL SKILLS, not the BS word called CONFIDENCE, Marni). Only because Ive got other aspects of my game down and Im relentless, alpha, in-your-face and don’t take no for an answer do I ever get laid semi-regularly in spite of this lack of social skills.

    Keep in my mind that skw is living in NYC and probably needs to take a weekend vacation in order to meet a higher % of real people that repect him for what he is and not his bank balance. I say this without prejudice, but NYC is all about the social pressures of getting married early and being SOLVENT blah blah blah. So even to develop social skills with cool, hip, sexy singletons is a joke, unlike London, Parkey, where you and I know we can walk into Hoxton and be super f¤%&ing cool :)

    My suggestion for skw is “in and out”. Practise flirting in chunks, don’t even attempt to close. Work the skills up and stretch the PUA muscles. Just for a week or two. Its NOT an answer, its not a guarantee, but in my opinion, its necessary to have any chance of further progress. Because even if a girl likes your looks, lack of social skills can destroy it, making you feel less good looking upon rejection. Happened to me a lot of times and still affects my psyche.

  • skw

    Thanks Mark. one of the best, most realistic answers Ive ever gotten.

    I disagree just one place, nyc isn’t about getting married early, in fact its the opposite, it’s about staying single as long as humanly possible, but it IS about money and power, which I have neither of.

  • Parkey

    Good post Mark.

    I spent months just doing social activities getting used to being around women. It makes a massive difference looking back.

    I know lots of guys who agree that men and women can’t be friends who have no trouble getting women, but personally I disagree. Two of my closest friends right now are women and I value them enormously. Amongst other things it’s a great way to get comfortable talking about sex.

  • skw

    “Two of my closest friends right now are women and I value them enormously. ”

    And you’re telling me there was never any sexual interest that you had towards them, or vice-versa?

  • Parkey

    Attractive but not my type, and vice versa. It can happen.

  • skw

    What? You’ve descended into a new level of incomprehensibility

    You’re saying she’s attractive but not you’re type.. ?

    You do know when I ask you if so-and-so is attractive I mean attractive to you.

    This outta be good. please explain how someone can be attractive to you but not your type?

  • Parkey

    Pla·ton·ic   [pluh-ton-ik]
    adjective

    1. purely spiritual; free from sensual desire, especially in a relationship between two persons of the opposite sex.

    2. feeling or professing platonic love: “He insisted that he was completely platonic in his admiration.”

  • Mark

    You can rate someone but not fancy them – in individual cases this can be true, in the same way that anyone can beat anyone on any given Sunday if youll pardon yet another sports analogy.

    However, if its a repeated pattern that girls say “Youre attractive and not your type” its BS and they are just being polite.

    To carry that analogy on, yes its conceivable that on one Sunday about a month ago Kansas City beat Green Bay. Easily believable as its only one game and of course it actually happened. But if someone were to tell me that Kansas City would go 15-1 next season and use that victory as a reason why, we’d all laugh in their face.

    So yeah on occasion you can rate but not fanyc someone but make sure its not a constant thing, otherwise the majority of them are lying and dont actually rate you.

  • skw

    “Pla·ton·ic   [pluh-ton-ik]
    adjective

    1. purely spiritual; free from sensual desire, especially in a relationship between two persons of the opposite sex.

    2. feeling or professing platonic love: “He insisted that he was completely platonic in his admiration.””

    Ok. nice to know that. This doesn’t answer my question.

  • Andy

    how do women get rejected if they never approach men, ask men out? never initiate anything?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Women may not directly approach men so much, but they still have to deal with their own forms of rejection. For instance, a woman may give a guy a signal to approach, and the guy may not respond; or plenty of times a girl may like a guy more than he likes her and get hurt in the process. So women don’t have it as easy as you might think!

      I hope that makes sense

      Marni :)

      • skw

        “For instance, a woman may give a guy a signal to approach, and the guy may not respond”

        does it ever cross the mind that the signal wasn’t strong or adequate enough? That the problem isn’t “guy received signal and decided to reject” rather the problem is, “guy didn’t receive signal” or “signal isn’t strong enough” ?

        If a hot girl pulled me into a corner and started making out with me, I wouldn’t reject her.

        “or plenty of times a girl may like a guy more than he likes her and get hurt in the process.”

        In the process of a relationship or the process of approaching?

        • Andrew

          I don’t get why so many people, both men and women, say, feel, that we men have life easier than women do, whenever there is an argument, debate about gender, more people say men have life easier than women, but of course many people say it is not easy for any gender, each gender has it equally difficult but it in different ways. That makes sense but I don’t know how to believe that we as men have life easier, sure we don’t have to deal with pregnancy, periods, child-birth, but still. A lot of us guys, men, who have bad luck with women, have always and still struggle getting a date/girlfriend, i think it is normal for us guys to think, say that women have it easier because they do not have to initiate anything, all women have to do is welcome or deny advances, women have the final say, women have “Veto Power”. Obviously the people who do the approaching do not have the authority or final say in getting accepted. Also, this may come across as a rant as well, but i really hate how life, society, culture, the media, expect us guys to toughen it up all the damn time, they always tell us to “Man Up, Be a Man, Grow a Pair, Grow some Balls”. Seriously, why are a man’s balls, testicles, a symbol of strength? dominance? assertiveness? aggressiveness? leadership? where is the logical explanation in that?

          • Marni Wing Girl

            No idea on that one but what I would say, that I think is really important for you to understand, is that women don’t have it all that easy romantically.

            You have no idea how many times girls get their hearts broken by the wrong guy, don’t feel attractive to men, worry why no one approaches them. It’s tough on both sides but if we keep trying to understand each other we’ll do better all round
            :-)

      • skw

        “So women don’t have it as easy as you might think!”

        No, but they certainly have it easIER than men. wouldn’t you agree?
        at least attractive women do.

        Physically unattractive women have it very difficult, that’s completely agreed upon.

        • Andrew

          true, but better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all, it’s just that shyness, quietness, social-awkwardness hurts guys way more than girls, it’s just my own opinion, i know i can’t speak for every guy, i just feel it’s easier for a girl to get a boyfriend than it is for a guy to get a girlfriend, yes i am completely aware, i know that for every girl that has a boyfriend that guy has a girlfriend, but when people say that, they are missing the point, it’s that guys have to do the work in order to get a girlfriend, but girls just have to “Veto”

          • Ardiana

            Very true.

            And for those guys that make it to statistics, I would translate the saying “Every girl that has a boyfriend that guy has TEN girlfriends”, because they do stack up on those guys that now these secrets and women will see them of High Value and not bother with others.

  • Al

    Totally agree with Marni’s original article. My agreement comes based on experience, rather than logical argument.

    A year ago, I was a short-term dating student coming out of a bad break up (having been dumped), fortunately only needing a little help (rather than full scale re-modelling / personal identity change) and am now a trainee dating instructor (with London based connections, but no commercial ties, and currently not working due to long-term injury lay off), who is still learning but has had a fair share of success in his process of personal growth. I have been looking through Marni’s newsletter’s and blog posts of late and am finding so much (practically all) of it to be true based on my own experience and learning. This is not a ‘given’ by the way – there is poor advice all over the Internet, often coming from ‘reputable’ sources i.e. touted by successful, commercial entities. I understand that it is very hard for those at the beginning of their journey to distinguish between gooad and bad advice, without a frame of reference gained through substantial experience in approaching.

    I have seen both sides of the coin in so many instances (and with so many others). I can say categorically that rejection is a critical stage to improvement in one’s dating life / ability to meet women. The only guys who rarely get rejected are those who have uncommonly fortunate combinations of looks, physical presence (e.g. height) prestige, wealth, fame etc and even they need at least passable (rather than excellent) social skills. The rest of us improve and learn through rejection – there is no other way. You simply cannot learn all the theory and then go out and win every ‘first serve’ (…i think that was the analogy being used). Of course you can increase the rate at which women feel instant attraction for you, and your success rate can improve overall. But you can never be rejection proof and if your goals are healthy e.g. ‘I want to date this girl’, or ‘I want to sleep with this girl if she wants the same thing’, then it does not matter if she goes for after initially rejecting you. If you are seeking validation externally, then that is an unhealthy goal and one that you will never be able to achieve no matter how good you are. The frame itself comes from a place of scarcity and outcome dependence, which are unnattractive qualities that women will instantly and instuitively sense from your subcommunication and from your reactive nature.

    For those who doubt the valididty of this i.e. that rejection can be a spur to success, rather than debating, projecting and using logical argument (which will only perpetuate self limiting beliefs, if the logic of those beliefs can be justified through argument), your best chance will be to gain experience through getting mentoring and 1-on-1 feedback, while increasing the number of approaches you do. Not all experience (and resultant beliefs, paradgms etc) can be explained or contextualised through reasioned logic. Material such as that on this site is far easier to judge based on one’s experience and I can honestly say that everything that I’ve read of Marni’s material to date, resonates very strongly with my own experience of the dating (more crudely, ‘pick up’) scene.

    Once you have more experience, you will be better able to judge whether the advice is good advice or not. Sometimes you will have success or failure and not understand it – this is where reading this type of material will help you improve your thinking and better direct how you go about improving. Marni can give you the answers – and compared to a lot of other material I’ve learned hers is excellent, and so far it is totally ‘spot on’ from what ive read – but she cannot make you experience it or give you the frame of reference you need to contextualise it. This is where field experience comes in, and mentoring for those who need the extra push to take action, and continue to take action immediately after a ‘rejection’ / failed apprach / ejection. Building momentum is key to one’s success and the beginning of that process on any given day (or night) most oftem begins with one form of rejection or another, even for the most highly skilled.

    Yes you do need some physical evidence (EXTERNAL reference) to help motivate you at some point – we have all heard that success breeds confidence – but you need to interpret any external cues with a clear understanding and frame of reference (INTERNAL reference). The internal process is what will determine whether subsequent efforts to improve yourself will succeed or fail. As well as Marni’s DVD material, which I will be going through in more detail myself (as I’m also looking to improve my understanding / coaching ability), I can recommend looking at David D’s Deep Inner Game programme. This helps you to distinguish between achievable goals (e.g. things yo control, that fall within your perosnal boundary) and non-achievable goals (e.g. external validation, or having long-term goals within someone else’s boundary for example ‘oneitis’) – and also teaches core psychological truths with regard to improvement of self esteem (e.g. Courage means doing the right thing in context, thus turning Anxiety to Confidence; Assertiveness means taking action to fulfill basic needs, turning Anger /Depression to Well-being etc).

    This article covers an Intermediate/ Advanced concept – ‘getting rejected to show attractive unreactiveness and other attractive, masculine traits’. Inner game concepts such as those i describe above can also help to contextualise this more advanced material, which is at first confusing when read by beginners… There is plenty of Inner Game-related material to corroborate this and contextualise this e.g. in RSD’s Blueprint Decoded programme – specifically where Tyler talks about how women’s attraction to men is based on behavioural cues (unlike a man’s tendency to based his attraction to women on visual cues). A cool, calm response to rejection is a behavioural trait that distinguishes the most desirable men for the majority of healthy, attractive women, who have high self esteem – particularly those who are used to being approached and courted. This can be taken further…

    To take one more example, I will refecerence Sixty Year’s of Challenge – in “Fearless Relentless Escalation”, he lists the three most attractive behavioural traits a man can show when approaching a women and attempting to escalate the encounter – and I need to add here – in a nightgame enviroment:

    1. Opening and physically escalating as soon as possible (determined by your desire and intent) – I’ll add here that this should be with respect to context (e.g. bar/ club vs bookshop)
    2. Showing a cool, calm (even smiley) response to rejection
    3. Persistance (- reasonable persistance i.e. not harrassment)

    In terms of your behaviour towards her, nothing can be more attractive to a woman on first meeting you, if she is open to meeting a man that night (or day, if appropriate setting). You’ve ticked every box and you can feel free to move on if she isn’t interested…

    Women are supposed to give you a little shit. How else can they separate men from boys?! Focus on what you WANT and see whether she will give to you… If she doesn’t try again… If she still doesn’t move on… This seems a little basic but in essence it is the archetypical masculine approach to meeting women, and this is how attractive / feminine / well adjusted women expect to be courted. You cannot succeed if you don’t acknowledge the rules of engagement. Even if you want to change the rules – or make up your own rules – you still need to understand and play by the accepted courtship ritual initially, until you achieve competence / mastery (whatever your initial goal is).

    Lastly, just to say that I am a big fan of Marni’s material because unlike many of the other female dating / pick-up experts out there, she does not hold back on the more hardcore, masculine aspects of pick up e.g. sexual intent, playing women at their own game (in a healthy way) etc. Most of the female experts focus on deep rapport, ‘date’ game, conversation etc (which is valuable but can be very one dimensional), which is why most learners go to male-dominated sources for their advice on pick up. Coupled with her perspective as an attractive female, who has no doubt been on the receiving end of almost every type of attraction/ seduction based behaviour from almost every type of male, I think she is occupying a unique place in the community.

    I look forward to reading more of your blogs and watching your DVD’s Marni :)

    Much love,

    Al

    • http://www.winggirlmethod.com Marni

      Thanks Al. Definitely appreciate the support, the kind words and the time you took to write this. :-)

  • Al

    Hey, no problem… I have a few weeks off work (due to an operation) and the plus side to this is plenty of spare time :)

  • Serginho

    Any one rejection; agree is no big deal.

    But dozens of them in a row, for weeks or months at a time, is.

    Unfortunately none of the discussion addresses the fear of rejection that naturally develops from this latter scenario, and from which I suffered for many years.

    Thoughts?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Serginho

      It sounds like you’ve had some bad experiences and now think quite negatively about women.

      I’m sorry to hear that and I hope you can realise that women aren’t naturally attracted to sociopaths! But we do like guys who know what they want, are confident, direct and ok to approach us- and yes sometimes be rejected. I’ll try to put a blog together addressing the fear of rehection. In the mean time you may find this article useful:

      http://www.winggirlmethod.com/how-to-handle-rejection-by-women/

      Marni :)

  • SERGIO

    HI MARNI ! I’M 48 AND I’M DATING A VERY YOUNG GIRL SHE’S 18 ,THE THING IS I TREAT HER LIKE A PRINCESS,BUY HER GIFTS,TAKE HER TO THE FANCIEST RESTAURANTS,TAKE HER TO THE MOVIES , HAVE GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH HER PARENTS,GIVE HER MONEY FOR HER EXPENSES ,BEING MR. NICE GUY ALWAYS FOR HER , AND WE HAVE BEEN DATING FOR 3 MONTHS , THE PROBLEM IS I WANT TO TAKE OUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE NEXT LEVEL , BUT WHAT I CAN SEE I AM NOT ATTRACTIVE TO HER .I REALLY LOVE THIS GIRL , WHAT SHOULD I DO? SHOULD I DUMP HER ? OR TALK ABOUT WHERE OUR RELATIONSHIP IS GOING , HAS SHE PUT ME IN THE FRIEND ZONE? I HAVE INVESTED SO MUCH MONEY AND TIME WITH HER.HEY I AM NOT BAD LOOKING,WEAR NICE ELEGANT CLOTHES , DRIVE A SUV , HAVE A NICE JOB AND A GOOD BUSINESS ON THE SIDE.I AM FOR SURE A MORE HIGHER VALUE THAN HER.SO WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ?, YES MARNI I WANT TO TAKE OUR RELATIONSHIP TO A SEXUAL LEVEL.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hi Sergio

      It sounds to me like you may have over invested in a girl that isn’t ready/ willing to have the kind of relationship you want. I’m sure you’re a well intentioned good guy but the dynamic here may have become a little transactional. I’d be as honest with her as you have been on this blog; if she isn’t interested in the same things as you then let her go, move on, maybe date a slightly more mature woman, who will be clearer about her sexuality and hwo can occasionally go dutch

      Good luck

      Marni

  • jackson

    would this apply to someone that was dumped by a girlfriend? to handle the rejection as if nothing happened and you’re okay with it? advice on how to get over a breakup would be nice.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      I’ll try to fix up a blog on this one- it seems to be a really popular topic on here

      • jackson

        i’d be interested to see your insight into this. I don’t have issues meeting/engaging women…it’s just this particular breakup is painful and the circumstances that surround. still both care about each other and maybe i should type out the whole scenario, if i have time. And i’ve been dating since i was 16, i’m 28 now. with many breakups and short/long term relationships.

  • JG

    I agree with you 100% Marni. The more you experience something bad, the thicker your shell becomes. Actually this lay be true for good things as well, as some people tend to fail feeling happy when good returns come their way – but that’s another story.
    I was with friends in a bar in Paris when I met this girl, it was her birthday so she kinda was reeceiving lots of attention from nearly everyone around, inclunding the bartender. As I wedged my way to order I chose to talk to her, and noticed something strange with her voice..and told her about it – yep, that’s me, I’m a nosy person. She threw me to the face that it was the result of an operation and that she doesn’t quite like talking about it. Wham, door shut. Tough, I place a quick ‘sorry, I didn’t know’ then take my drinks, turn around and go back to my friends.
    What happenned next? Take a guess…there she is again, next time I turned my body towards her direction she made a nice remark about the T-Shirt I was wearing, with the highest voice pitch she could ever use. 15 min later we were on the dance floor when she put…handcuffs between our 2 belts! Needless to say how or where it ended…
    Long story short: take rejection with a smile like some chilly breeze blew down your spine, man up and switch. She’ll change her mind. Fact.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Glad to hear this story JG!

      I think that when a woman ‘rejects’ a man she’s not rejecting the best of him, the whole of him; just a quick 5 second impression she got of him. React well and you’ll show a little more of what a great guy you are; and this could certainly be enough to change a woman’s mind!

      Marni :-)

  • clarke

    hey marni..i 19 yr guy and i wanted help from you. last month i met a girl at my friend’s birthday party. i got attracted to her the moment i saw her but i couldnt talk to her as she was surrounded by her friends..the next day i added her on fb started talking her..but the problem was it was always me who had to start the conversation.we chatted for about 3-4 times but it was always me who had to start the convo and ask all the quest,she only replied to my questions(but in a nice way.not one word answers)…so i got fed up and i told my frind about it and he told that girl that i like her..but the girl said”hes a nice guy but its that i dont want to get into these things now”..(she had broke up with her ex a month bac)….but even after that i spoke to her a few times..here is the main problem….since she was just replying and not asking anything i was everytime asking her if she was busy or was i disturbing her ..i asked her this continuously in 3 conversations..i guess she got pissed off and she told my friend that hes talking wierdly and im not liking to talk to him…after my firnd told me this i got very sad,angry,i cant explain my feelings…:( since then ive stopped contacting her its been a month now and 2 days bac she texted me ..and this time she she even started asking me questions and told me many things…and again from next day shes quiet……..im reallllllllly confused….plzz tell me what faults did i make and how can i rectify it…and is this girl into me? and i really desperately want her ..i know ive written a lengthy message..but sorry i desperately want her so i wanted to explain everything in detail..plzzzz help me marni..and i would be very happy if any1 reading this would give me any suggestion

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Clarke

      Ok I think there’s a few really valuable lessons to be taken from this.

      1. You don’t need to justify why you’re speaking to her, or apologise about it. Instead if you’re conscious that she may be busy say that you’re busy and have to go.

      2. Always go and say hi at a party, it’s sometimes easier and more direct than chatting via the internet.

      3. Sometimes space is the right resolution i.e. because you stopped chasing she started to chase you.

      So i’d give her a little more space, if she reinitiates contact again, suggest that you get a coffee sometime. If she doesn’t respond positively don’t feel mad, just move on. There will be tons of girls out there who want to get to know you.

      Marni :-)

  • clarke

    {{forgot to mention}} once when i asked her why doesshe talk so less with me..she replied’ bcoz i dont know what to talk” ..and i asked her whther she talks so less with every1 ,se replied ” no..i talk alot”..then she told me ‘ u r a verry shy guy” what does she mean to say?????????? but it is true that i m a verry shy guy….why didnt she talk to me as she does with other people?? what should i do??/ ((after this conversation..the next day she said my friend that i was talking wierdly))

  • John

    Ive been reading ALOTTT Of your material, and what you have is really good. it isnt like other dating coaches.

    What ive said too women wasnt as strong as this. Never letting your guard down. i got a number like that! your awesome. and thanks :)

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Thanks John :-)

  • Frank

    Hi Marni.

    I too have had bad experiences, and have a negative feeling about women. In MY experience, women are heartless, mean and controlling and they get pizzed when they find out they can’t control you, or your NOT their cup of tea (per-say)..and I’m sorry to say this, but I’m sick of it. Totally.

    I’ve come to the realization of being a good guy is useless with women. Absolutely USELESS.

    Another thing, is I’m a 36 year old virgin (yes, I’m a virgin, so laugh it up you all) for lots of various reasons. One is, I was overweight in school, and then lost the weight, and was starting to get to lookin good, and I still couldn’t get laid or find someone.

    I feel like I’d rather die/put a gun to my head, than to keep on living like this, but don’t have access to a gun, so it probably won’t happen.

    • Shady

      forget about the gun.. there’s nothing wrong with being Virgin if you’re not married, actually this is normal but unfortunately principles are reversed these days the wrong is right and the right becomes wrong.
      you’ve been rejected So what .. I come to find this is part of being a man.. rejection will happen somewhere sometime. don’t take it personally.

      Go out.. do the things you love, and as you do you will meet new people, travel often, try new things, have fun while God is working in your life. and before you know it you will find yourself in love with someone who adores you.

    • Wesley

      dudeeeeeee just have sex with an escort or prostitute. Women want men for money anyway so here you can get a lot of bang for your buck. Go ahead and look for some websites and hit one and you will thank me later.

  • Joseph

    Hey Marni! A few things totally helped me! I used to get upset in being rejected, but now I don’t f**king care anymore, I simply laugh, or walk away and go to another girl, after all, I already have the “No” but what if she says yes? It’s always worth the try!

    • http://www.winggirlmethod.com Marni

      Love it!!! I don’t give a shit was the best thing I ever learned!!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Joseph

      glad to hear it! Worst that can happen is that you don’t know a stranger 20 seconds later; the best case scenario is definitely worth taking that action. Taking action and approaching will also make you feel good about you.

      Good luck

      Marni :)

  • Nauman

    Hey Marni,love your work i actually had a proposed my friend about 3 years ago no contact after that,few days before i found it on facebook.i want to know her so requested her on skype in that request i said(hi girl its been a long time like to add u on skype)but from 2 days no reply from her what should i do?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Nauman

      I’m not 100% on what the scenario is here so maybe repost another comment spending a little more time explainign your situation?

      I would say though that if she hasn’t been responding to you how you want: then it’s probably best to move on to another woman who you have more contact with day to day

      Good luck

      Marni :-)

  • Marty

    “You’re not listening to what I said. You’re listening to the thoughts in your head instead”.

    That’s what one girl told me once. And, to be honest, she had a point. A girl saying “no” to a date or whatever would be translated inside my head as: “I’m awful, I’m not attractive, I’m ugly, not good looking enough etc…etc…”

    She’d said none of those things. I thought I was being clever. I thought I was reading between the lines. But I wasn’t. I was just letting my beliefs about myself tell me what had just happened. I was just letting my own beliefs tell me what the girl had said and meant.

    I might as well have been having sex with my negative and limiting beliefs because I was in a relationship with them.

    I got infected with the “not good enough” thought virus quite early on in life and it’s been tough escaping from the power of that thing ever since. When that’s in your head it really doesn’t matter what women say. No hot girl chucking herself at you can defeat the power of that thing and every rejection is just interpreted until it confirms the thought you had all along that: you’re not good enough.

    I would see all guys as competition and get jealous if women showed them attention. Women showed me attention. Did I celebrate that fact? Oh no, because I was trying to get other people to prove that I was good enough so every woman had to show me attention. I had to have the hot girl showing me attention and I’d get cross if that didn’t happen.

    But the main reason why that didn’t happen was because I felt like I wasn’t good enough to talk to the hot girls or any girl really. I thought that I wasn’t good looking enough, wasn’t good enough at rapport or conversations etc. I thought I’d lose out to better looking guys and so I just didn’t talk to the girls and especially not to the hot ones.

    And the result: a fair number of hot girls who think I’m either bonkers or rude. Not one of them cares whether I look like a male model or not. They roll their eyes when I care.

    I wouldn’t consider myself on the same level as other guys and this stopped me making friends with other men for a long, long time. So no drinking buddies to go down the pub or bar with to drown the sorrows of rejection from a girl.

    The “not good enough” thought virus is dying now. It’s lost almost all of its power and things have got a huge amount better. I’m visible now. A guy who doesn’t think he’s good enough won’t show himself or be open or be vulnerable. I can be all those things now and that means the world to me.

    Marni’s teachings have given me so much value. But not because they are words on a page. I’ve been out and had experiences using her teachings and noticed changes. I didn’t become some other guy by following Marni’s teachings. I simply got the confidence to show who I actually am.

    I’ve written that rather personal post to warn people against making rejection mean that you’re not good enough. Rejection doesn’t really mean anything until you make it mean something. You’ve got a choice. You can react calmly and confidently to a rejection even if it hurts or you can spend nigh on twenty odd years fighting the power of a “not good enough” thought virus.

    I know which one I’d choose.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Marty

      Thanks so much for this valuable post: I think a lot of guys out there will resonate with what you’ve written. I completely agree that sometimes your worst enemy is your own negative beliefs; so I’m really glad to hear that you’re well on your way to overcoming yours.

      Bottom line: rejection is only what you make it, and often has nothing to do with you!

      So next time it happens, hold your head up high, smile and feel good in yourself for taking the action to say ‘hi’: and acknowlegde that soon you will get th response you want

      Marni :-)

  • John

    For some unknown reason I am being Rejected by women my own age, but when it come to women half my age I find that they want to know me. At present I have one that E-mails me at least 5 times a week sending me Love Letters.

    Should I tell her to Grow up and come back in another 30 years or accept her desires to have my children with her?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey John

      I think you should only consider having children (that’s a HUGE commitment!) with someone who you’ve got a long standing, positive relationship with. It doesn’t sound like you want this woman genuinely: just because she’s the only woman currently on the scene. Be fair to her by letting her go, then focus on dating women you want and are attracted to. Approach with an open mind, and a belief that they will like you, and good things will happen

      Good luck

      Marni :-)

  • DJ

    let’s just say that approaching women isn’t a problem or conversing either for that matter. i have been coming out of my gun-shyness after being divorced almost 4 years ago…for me, it’s the flake out and indecisiveness. i realized that unlike in marriage, constant comm is a no-no and comes off as needy DESPITE what women say. lol…my problem is that next step. balancing gentleman with alpha to get things more heated. sadly i realize that if a woman, given a 24-48 hour window doesn’t respond, 90% of the time they will not. how do i get to the “good part” more effectively…close the deal? i am not the usual jerk type but damn when i was in a cool, fun mood and (yes) wearing my puma outfit, it was like a golden era.

    i am 41 year old african american guy and relatively fit (6’0 185 lbs) and most think i am in my early 30′s at best. i am trying to re-navigate. help a brother out! lol…

    DJ

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey DJ

      thanks for your message. I think the best way to keep things ‘heated’ is just to be honest and direct about what you want. Rather than hanging around for the ‘right moment’ try to be cool with just stating, ‘I’ve enjoyed meeting you and I want to take you out sometime.’

      That way you’ll get a straight answer- you sound like a great guy so I’m sure things will work out for you

      Marni :-)

  • dave

    What a horrible game! Women get just what they deserve!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Dave

      it’s not a game, and I’m concerned after reading your comment that you think women are just out there to torture guys which couldn’t be further from the truth.

      The biggest secret I can ever tell you about women is that they want to be approached: just in the right way. If they do wind up ‘rejecting’ you then learn from the experience, handle it positively and you’ll attract a lot more women going forward

      Good luck Marni :-)

  • Mike S

    Just stay down till you are accepted no matter how many times you get rejected. If a woman acts like she is leading you on and is playing games leave her alone she is an attention hound and/or a flake. Again stay determined and you will get a woman. Try not to figure out what makes a fickle and irrational mind tick because it is a waste of time. Just stay determined to get a girl who likes you and who won’t flake on you.

  • Eric

    I dance Salsa on a regular basis an if I got bent out of shape every time a woman turned me down for a dance I’d be a pretzel, seriously I’d be miserable.

    But I get a dance more often than not and I have my regulars and unless they’re exhausted or promised a dance with someone else, I always get a yes.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Eric

      It sounds like you’ve got a great attitude to rejection: realising that it isn’t often personal, and that there are tons of other women out there for you

      Good luck with the Salsa

      Marni :)

  • Anthony

    Hi Marni,
    I met a girl online and we are in the friend zone for almost ages, i.e., 2 years till today. I have kind of feeling like making her my girl friend in real terms, but the problem is she got into some work tensions and family troubles and stopped even picking my calls but replies me through texts via mobile. I am not so sure what the weird acting of her recently as of comparing the recent months how she use to talk to me when I was abroad. I am quite annoyed trying to talk with her and even invite her for a dinner. It doesn’t seem alright for me to express all my feelings for her over the text or email. So what is the best way to express her that I am not interested to be her friend anymore?
    Thanks
    Anthony

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Anthony

      I have to be honest here: if she isn’t placing you in a position of enough value to take your calls, it’s unlikely that she will be in the best place to accept you romantically. It sounds like, regardless of what else is going on in her life, she doesn’t respect you as a romantic interest: otherwise she would be treating you like a higher priority. I’d cool things off a bit and focus your attentions elsewhere.

      This doesn’t mean you’re no longer friends, but she has to reach out to you now, and pick up the phone before you can consider her as a potential girlfriend

      Good luck

      Marni :)

      • Anthony

        Hi Marni,
        Yeah whatever U said was absolutely correct in terms of romantic partner. I proposed her in a indirect way as such I am not comfortable to be as a friend to her and i too said that I like her too much. Then she has not responded in any way. She is just quiet. I asked her to say something, then she said that it was kind of shocking to hear from a close friend. And she asked me not to worry and better stay as friends. This is creepy as she has not responded in any direction, i.e.., either rejection or acception.

        I said that i wanna talk about more in detail before considering anything for granted and she will call me sometime soon… Hope to leave her in my opinion as she seems very busy in her daily life.

        Just let me know what would be the best solution as i dont know how to proceed further.

        Thanks Marni

        regards
        Anthony

        • Marni Wing Girl

          Hey Anthony

          I actually think you’ve already made your move here (well done for putting yourself out there). Now I think it’s HER time to make a step forward, if she doesn’t then move on… there will be a lot of women out there who appreciate an honest and direct guy.

          Good luck

          Marni :)

  • DOUBLE-R I MEAN ROMAN.

    I just fall in love with a girl who is 2 younger then me, beside Im in teenage.so I proposed her 1 year ago and absutly she rejected me.I dont know why, she dont even look at me when I am around me.I just want to know how does she feel about me.she is in my same school.She also said to her friends that she dont like anykind of boys.But most of her friends think that Im special and most of them likes me and my style but she dont.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Double-r

      I think you need to take some time out from thinking about marriage! You’ve got tons of time to meet someone great, so putdating to one side for a second and focus on you. I think a lot of people would love to go back and spend more time just doing what they love, and discovering who they are before doing the relationship thing… so put this one on ice for a good few years and just enjoy being you

      Marni :)

  • DOUBLE-R I MEAN ROMAN.

    She is only 13 and am 14.

  • Enrique

    Hey Marni
    I told this girl that I wanted to be her boyfriend and she didn’t really have a reaction. I told her by just telling her how I feel about her and how she makes me feel. And how I wanted to be that special guy in her life to make her feel special. She said she was shocked but not the good kind of shocked or the bad kind. She said she sees me as a best friend. I asked her how was she was feeling after telling her I wanted to be her boyfriend and she said kind of nervous and that she really didn’t know what to say to what I have told her. I was really nervous when I was telling her this. When I was done with what I had to say. I walked away telling her to have a good day. Marni I would really appreciate some help. I just don’t want to lose this girl.

    • KRS1

      if your friend was to tell you this and you we’re giving him an honest answer what would you tell them

  • Brian Sondi

    I’m with you on getting rejected,”sort of think it’s pointless mind games that only, overly entitled women play.., ” but there has to be something said about being open and honest with you’re feelings, that you are having, in that very moment.,”with or without” her., you’re still feeling something that “should be valued and respect/ honored.., but That’s NOT what attracts.., like you ladies said…. Sooo., i’m lost on how to actually attract, someone who isn’t interested in playing my games., or “TESTING”.., I mean shit, I can be testing her ass., and seeing if she’ll pass,etc., and etc., qualification test..,’per say,’ but I’m not interested in such petty actions in my approach., that simply cause me a lot of stress…, if someone can’t be “REAL” and just open with their feelings towards me., than this world is a pretty Fucked Up Place!!! and i’m not very hopeful for a “higher valued” conscience, for our children’s future………..

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Brian

      I totally get what you’re saying that manipulation or not being able to be ‘sincere’ if you’re a man or a woman is lame. However, whilst actively ‘playing games’ with other people isn’t cool, it’s important to understand the subconscious drivers that will cause a woman to ‘test’ you.

      Women often test guys that they’re attracted to and want to know if the guy is a keeper, or not.’Testing’ a guy as to how sincerely interested in her he is a way that women separate the men from the boys; how they work out whether this guy- out of the 10 that have hit on her that day- is the guy that she’ll take seriously, as he’s demonstrated to her that he’s interested in something beyond her superficial appearance

      I hope that helps – you may also want to check out this article http://www.winggirlmethod.com/how-women-use-the-shit-test/
      Marni :)

  • Tim

    You know several years ago or maybe a year ago i would had said women play games & some do but i think in all reality i think women do it instinctively its their way of weeding out the weak of the heard if they didnt they would would get swamped by pure knuckle heads or needy guys.I mean its like most men are straight pussies or flat out a-holes , the things women do today is cause of the mental castration of men they have a set of balls but dont have any , i was speaking with a guy today & he said his son went to the prom with a girl who was very attractive & she had turned down 4 other guys now you know the reason she chose him he asked her face to face they had texted her to go to the prom go figure no balls at all & its the way they are raised so women have had to pick up the slack for these men who call themselves men lol .

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Tim

      I think there is definitely some truth in what you’re saying. Women don’t think, ‘hey, I’m going to test this guy now just to eb mean’ women do it totally subconsciosuly in order to figure out which of the guys that has approached them is the one worth giving a chance… much like your friend’s son’s prom date

      Marni :)

    • Ding Chavez

      Guys are Needy because the supply is small and hard to get.
      You don’t see people hoarding air do you? No, because no one is trying to stop you from breathing as much as you’d like.
      Stop making the supply so hard to get and the needy guys will vanish overnight.
      Simply really.
      Women are already dating the knuckleheads, so their sorting system is clearly faulty.

  • Tim

    Ive read some of these coments that guys have wrote down , i have been shot down my fair share of times & i have had more than enough women too , i have always had the ability to walk away from a woman it didnt matter how much i liked her or what if she wasnt interested in me then i would walk away from it & no hard feelings , i have always considered myself good with women & had signs of being great lol but sometimes i would break down and have some wussy behaviour lol but would always quickly rebound , but i will tell you this being a nice guy got me way further, women love nice guys not door mats or jerks there is a difference & sometimes i would get walked on but like i wouldnt take it for long i would bail very quickly .The problem as men we have become scarcity minded we need to talk to women everyday & dont worry bout the results and just do it. You can believe it or not but women are looking for the knight in shining armor nothing has changed when your a nice guy & have & your unshakable with no needy behaviour wow women will chase you from here to the hills dont believe it try it you might like it , & if youre messing with women who arent attracted to it then you need to move up in class of women you will be amazed at the results .

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hi Tim

      I think there’s some great advice in here!
      - Approach, approach, approach- get used to saying ‘hi’ and going after what you want.
      - It is possible to be ‘nice’ without being a ‘wuss’: women love guys who are strong, masculine and confident but also be the ‘knight in shining armour’
      - And yes if a woman doesn’t get ‘you’ and how great you are, then walk away- other women will understand it

      Thanks

      Marni :)

  • Danger

    I can relate to the torture analogy. I was married for 21 years lol. I was faithful and gave her the best years of my life. You are truly my wing girl Marni. I had no idea what I was doing right all those times I attracted women and had chances to cheat. You’ve given me priceless insight into my untapped confidence and prowess when it comes to my passion for women. Thank you Beautiful!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Wow this is so great to hear Danger!

      Wishing you all the best for the future :)

  • Pete

    in my experience rejection never gets easier, it just makes you doubt who you are make you dislike yourself. But thats just me. it also makes me dislike women a bit. I read all the stuff they do, its nasty and manipulative why I want that? woman dont allow guys to make mistakes in ANYTHING. so no wonder we dont approach.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Pete

      I can understand why you may feel that way; but that’s not how it feels from a woman’s perspective. Women rarely consciously test men or mean to hurt them (really! just like how men rarely mean to come across badly to a woman). Women are hard wired to subtly test guys; but this is just nature’s way of helping them to pick a guy who they want to be with. I know it can be tough, but keep focused on what you want, try to retain your positive attitude and that is the fastest way to become much more attractive. So wear a big smile, approach, approach, approach and if it doesn’t work out, keep up your smile and know there will be a woman who appreciates it out there for you.

      Marni :)

  • unknown

    so, i got rejected by this girl that now i don’t really know what i noticed on her, but she is cute, now. i sit next to her and i can’t concentrate in the class, i have sort of a attraction to just look at her and talk to her, the issue is that i asked her to be my gf by texting, i know it shouldnt have been like that, but well, so we did not speak to each other for like 2 years, now we are sitting together in the same class in the last year of school, id like to talk to her, but she sort of i dont know perhaps wanted to make me feel bad, but she started to talking to my friend and i now dont know what to do, and yes i am sort of scared of talking to her because alll her friends sit next to her, too.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Unknown

      My read on this one is that you need to stop hiding both from your feelings and this girl. Ok so maybe asking a girl out by text wasn’t the smoothest, but you have an opportunity here to win back some cool points. If you sit back and let her talk to your friend, hoping she will talk to you, it will only make you come across as weak & weedy.

      Next time you see her walk right up to her and say, ‘Hey, just thought I’d finally come say ‘hi’… it’s been ages since we last caught up. How are you finding the class this year?’

      And if you want to acknowledge the goofy text- laugh it off and show that you have nothing to hide

      Marni :-)

    • SuperMe

      Hey Dude I got The Solution Contact me [answersReasy@gmail.com] I,ll Give you an E-book The rest of the material you can get on you-tube. You going to have to put your beliefs of how things work on hold, be willing to do some goofy stuff (don’t worry nothing creepy or public; just repeat some lines in Private), And Just A minimum minute of discipline.

  • Larry

    The last minute canceled 1st date.

    I’ve got red flags over further pursuit here. Allow me to explain. I work in a poker room in Las Vegas. We are both 50 yr olds. She is Chinese and her job brings her here for 2-3 months at a time, then she’s gone for 2 months. I met her at my work when she was playing poker.

    We’ve chatted a lot, and I asked her out to dinner. She immediately agreed. I made reservations for my day off choosing the cuisine she likes.

    Two hours before reservations she texts me she is too tired and needs some sleep.

    My feeling is she was up doing an all nighter at the poker tables that extended into the day. Obviously making her extremely tired.

    But to me this also means she didnt value our date enough to quit early.

    Deal breaker or give her another shot?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hi Larry

      I think this would have come across a lot better if she had made you another option of a time you guys could link up and meet.

      I would wait for her to show some initiative here by communicating with you, even if it’s just a text to say ‘hi’ before you ask her out again. And try not going for anything too heavy- perhaps she’d say yes to a drink after work whilst dinner may feel like a little too much

      Marni :-)

    • http://www.facebook.com/Jose.Albino.1993 Jose Albino

      deal breaker you don’t want a chick with gambling problems!

  • shay

    me and my friend both of us who are fairly shy around girls have started really pushing each other to ask a lot more women out almost turning it into a game between us. girls at parties, girls we meet in class, our waitresses at restaurants ive been asking them all out. I have found nothing but good things have come from this even when i do get rejected i find that it doesnt really hurt that much if its someone you havent known very long and havent had a chance to get emotionally attatched too. The rejection has in a way increased my confidence with women. I have been getting with way more girls than i usually do since we started this game and my friend is now in a relationship with a girl i forced him to make a move on.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Shay

      there’s some great things here:

      1. Learning to deal with rejection well.
      2. Getting comfortable with approaching.
      3. Finding out that having a ‘wing guy’ (or girl!) by your side to do it makes life a lot easier

      Marni :)

    • krs1

      EXACTLY!!! the sooner you get rejected the better. I know some guys that have “pretendinitis” relationships with girls they’ve never talked to so it wrecks their day/week when they finally go for it totally out of their head because their wagering so much. It’s warfare, get it, get out and move on

  • Andreas

    I think the point it’s stop all needenes, talk openly and the kiss it’s something natural that occurs throught many of the males efforts.Ultimately cut all needyness but show interest, i mean one won’t stop persuing the same woman just because she said no once to something, he goes in again later playfully and persists . That’s my goal anyway. Trying again playfuly and having fun!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Andreas

      I think being playful, having fun and doing what makes you happy is a great approach to meeting women.

      Marni :-)

  • TOYIN

    Hola Marni,

    I am a typical shy, quiet, good guy. my question is this How can i have more control over my shyness? my shyness have prevented me from getting to first base. I am a 28yr old african who never had a gf before. this makes me feel terrible, that i am this old and have not even gone on a date. Do you think i should become more of a bad boy to improve my chances of getting a girl. Where do you think most young women around my age (18 – 27) like to hang out? I try going to night clubs to find young women to ask out but to no success. i thought about going to bars , but i couldn’t since i dont drink alcohol. When i go the a club, and i see a girl that i like, and she is hanging out with her friends, i get intimidated. How do you suppose i get over this intimidation. I feel like i can have all the courage in the world to go skydiving or jump off a skyscrapper, but when it comes to women, i feel as weak as a feather( meaning i have no courage whatsoever) Do you think that is normal? How do i muscle up enough courage to walk up to girl and talk to her. Also how can i prolong a conversation?(meaning how can i make a conversation with women longer, since i have a problem with that. whenever i try to have a conversation with people, my mind goes blank after i say things that are on my mind. it is like i cant think of anything else to talk about.) My conversation usually last 30seconds minimum to like 3 minutes. So how can i have like 2hours conversation with women in general..

    I really appreciate it if you can give me some guidance on how to overcome some of my problems.

    Thanks in advance..

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Toyin,
      You realise that you want to get out there. That’s the first step!
      You don’t need to drink to go to bars! Chances are no one will even notice what you’re drinking if you have a soft drink or soda water.
      Try starting by going out with a group of friends if you get shy one on one. Chatting with a group of girls if you have some friends there too can be a lot more fluid. When it comes to conversation, there is no one answer. Chat about your interests: movies, music, books etcetera. Even if she doesn’t like the same things as you that doesn’t stop you from teasing her about her taste or getting her to give you some recommendations!
      Marni :)

  • Luis Miguel Garcia

    Marni @beautiful :)
    Luis Miguel García

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Thanks Luis!
      Marni :)

  • Eryface

    What is a good reply if we get rejected? Thanks

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Eryface,
      I would say that in a situation where you’re meeting someone for the first time that following up with more than a smile and wishing them a pleasant day/evening is an overcommitment. THe key is not over investing yourself so you don’t come off needy.
      Marni :)

    • Tom

      Dunno but if she says “No” “Go away!” “Leave me alone”. Probably just say “Ok” turn around and leave? :P

    • Wesley

      say “aww that’s too bad and I was goin to ask where you wanted to go shopping.” the cant change their mind fast enough after that.

  • Roman Sanchez

    I really messed up with this great girl. I felt angry from her rejection. I completely ignored her, even after she made ip her mind and chose to talk to me again. I just couldn’t get past the initial anger, fear, and doubt that she initially provoke. I created a very negative tension and now I realized that I was irrational. It was my first rejection. I wish I would hace had more experience to not have been so ignorant. Never get made at a woman because she rejects you. Always keep your cool and calm.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Roman,
      I guess it all comes down to weighing up the risk and result.
      Do you want her around more than you want to be right?
      If the answer is yes then don’t let irrational reactions keep you back!
      Marni :)

  • Mark

    Marni I just have to say again I love your work here, like soo much in life it is common sense.

    I broke up with the best lady I had ever been with it hurt real bad, I now know why we drifted apart, I lost that bull confidence, became scared of rejection and let HER rule my life.. She hated it because she wanted, in her words “A man not a son” she felt more like a mother than a lover.
    Thank you so much Marni I’m into this exercise this week..

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Mark,
      Sounds like you’re ready to see some positive changes in your life. Recognising where you need to help yourself takes guts. You’re on your way!
      Marni :)

  • waiting..

    I have an interesting story,

    I met this woman on line and we started to email back and forth about everything under the sun. She says I am going too fast and I am pushing her. So I slow down and think she will want to meet at some point. No she says, we need to get to know one another better?? Online?? I say, we need to meet at some point, so I can see into her eyes and actually get to know her. So am I just wasting time with her or too impatient?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey there waiting,
      It’s hard to give advice without specifics but no woman likes to be rushed. If you push the idea of meeting straight away after she’s just said she needs some space then there is little chance of escalation. Take a little breathing space and talk about other topics for awhile before trying to raise the subject again. If it carries on too long though the hassle outweighs any enjoyment.
      Marni :)

  • Audio1

    Challenge accepted.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      :)

  • mc

    The lesson to learn here is to lie. Lie big time. Treat women you like, as if you don’t like them. The typical neg stuff you preach against.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey MC,
      I wouldn’t say it is lying. I think it’s confronting the realities rather than being crippled by your imagined possibilities. You think the world is going to end if she rejects you and it’s going out there and learning that no- the world won’t end and you’re made of stronger stuff than other people’s expectations.
      Marni :)

  • collins

    hey Marni
    this is collins last week i proposed a girl of my class. after proposal she stopped talking to me from that time . she is not even answering to my call from that time .she is ignoring me in class when i tried to talk wid her she is not even trying to listen wht am saying to her she is just moving from the spot. we are friends from last 3 years. and i got love on her from from the day i saw her. presently we are having college only twodays a week . and she is next to me in the class roll. we are in final year. the thought of that she wont talk wid me is killing me . i hav been wait three years to propose her . and finally i didn’t get any answer. simply am in rejected list please help me i can’t imagine me without her cool funny childish part.

  • F(x)

    Unsure if the last attempt to post went through (had not logged in). Anyway:

    Regarding rejection one should always try to keep in mind (hard as it may be) the below:

    If I walk up to someone and say hi to them and they tell me off (no matter
    how it is done or whether it really is them telling me off or not) then
    I can look at it two ways:

    1) They are a jerk (or maybe they’re having a bad day).
    2) I must be a bad person.

    Regardless: they don’t know me and they don’t know what makes me, who I am or
    anything of the sort. I have not invested anything real time at all in
    them. How can it truly be rejection when they do not know me ? They are not one to judge me any more than I am to judge them (as a person) – I don’t know who they are and they don’t know who I am. Rejection would be more like this: I had a friend who I was fairly close to for many years. But I have a lot of health problems (worse at that time) and so he actually decided he could not handle talking at all ever again (he was the one who asked about these things though). Of course the irony is some time after that he was quite ill himself and even bed bound. Burnt bridge however. I would have been more than willing to keep in touch – it was his decision. The only reason it does not hurt that bad is I realized that it was much more his loss than mine and I could not change it anyway.

    People can blame others all they want and they can be angry all they want but
    holding that grudge is not going to improve anything for you and almost
    assuredly it will not improve things for people who interact with you.
    It would actually be the opposite: it would make things more miserable.

    And whether any signal(s) a woman gives is(are) too subtle or not the fact is that is
    how it is. You can (again) blame others, use the victim mentality or
    whatever else but you’re not helping yourself at all. Alternatively you can take it as an opportunity to learn more about body cues.

  • drew

    If u need the best working advice on women check out this blog it got all u need to know
    http://www.womentroubletools.blogspot.com/

  • Brandon

    I remember when I thought of what you prescribe years ago on my own. “Hey, I’ll just try to get rejected haha.” Afterward it was like getting done banging my head against a wall multiple times pointless and painful. No benefit whatsoever to what you recommend. It just instills the belief that if you approach, then you are guaranteed to be rejected every time, which turns into the belief that if you try anything, then you will fail. Failure begets more failure and before you know it you believe you’re a loser who can’t get any of the things he wants in life and just lives out a lonely, meaningless, miserable existence and one more failed attempt to escape that will result in life just being too painful to live so you just avoid trying anything except refraining from killing yourself.

  • Jovy

    I really like this piece is because being rejected by women, to me; now is not a big deal. We all experience rejection, if not most of our lives, correct? For instance, you did not land that deal done with a company, the dream job you interview for, graduate school and et cetera. I rather feel dejected to more important (life)matters; for a short while: but to also learn how to handle the emotions. People are just people, quit analyzing or try to change people. ( I bet you guys are trying to logically figure out what I’m saying now, which I call you guys the “fun police”.) You cannot control outcomes. If someone does not like you who cares! Invest in people that do cares about you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/funkie.aboki Funkie Aboki

    Nice. very nice!

  • Ashwin

    I proposed a girl shes my friend n she rejected bcoz shes lill typical indian girl n she said her parents will not allow our relation n she said she never thought about me n i luv her very much now what to doplzzzzzz suggest me

  • Wesley

    The games we have to play just to get attention. No more hi my name is… No you have to be or pretend to be the international man of mystery. You have to learn “techniques” to “trigger” “attraction” in sequential order just for them to consider you. You need to develop these qualities and “act” ways that attract them. “yeah the whole just be yourself, and everything will be ok” is just nonsense.

    These women are all attention seekers and using reverse psychology to manipulate them into become interested in you is your greatest chance of success…slim to none, unless you have a large bank account and frequent promises to go shopping, Time is money….Their time for your money.

    Then they wonder why things never work out.

    • dave

      Wesley – Sorry that you have to go through this. Women do not want to risk rejection( they will give a thousand reasons) and then you must NEVER, EVER think that YOU could be the prize. Best wishes!

  • David L.

    I got invited to Italy to visit a person I new vaguely. We stayed at a place in the mountains in a tiny villiage. We were listening to music outside at the evening and drinking wine, the first night. i went to kiss her and she rejected me. I decided to not get affected. The next day we were cuddling and reading outside, and making out and then more.

    This is one of the best posts I’ve read of you or anywhere. I like the part of torture. FEARLESSNESS AND WISDOM- those shall be our catchwords.

  • Speaking The Truth

    And what is very sad is that they will go out with men that treat them very badly, and Reject us men that would really know how to treat a woman well. then again, many women like a man that has Money nowadays which is very sad.

  • Jack

    Hi,

    Thank you for so much useful article. I like what you write about rejection. I agree that most of the times we just don’t know about women enough. If interested, there are tons of useful information about dating tips for men in this video: http://tinyurl.com/nu8v9ym

  • Dnyaneshwar

    I am working in BPO in India. I fell for boss of my boss. So, our talking is very rare. But she talks me first. One day she talks to me we are alone in that room I don’t know what to call in English for one eye is close and one is open she did that four to five times in that conversation, I don’t know what that means but after 2 to 3 months again she did that. So, I thought she into me. When in office she wandering around where I sit. So, I thought it’s time to go further.

    By the way, she was married 2 to 3 years before and it’s love marriage. One day I went to her and ask, “Do you have movies?” so she replied you want movies so give me pen drive. I haven’t so told I don’t have right now but I will give it to you next time. I given pen drive. When I receive it she is showing Anchorman 2 in the office and saying wonderful movie.

    I went to home and watched movie such a stupid movie but in movie lead actor and her boss has an affair. So, I thought this is clue. Then asked her for coffee, she smiles and says no. Then I asked her for what’s your plan in weekend, she said I’m married. Then again I asked for weekend she smiles and said why I said just asking but that conversation never goes further. So, I next time I called her and said I liked you, you came even in my dreams. She gave me warning and disconnect the phone.

    And next time came to her and said want to talk to you. She bring to me in room and I’m Manager and you are just an agent, this can’t be happen. And give me again warning.

    Next I texted her I want to talk to you tomorrow remind me. Next day she called my boss and said him to call me and bring us to us in room. And said more angrily Why you texted me and called me? I’m said I want to say sorry. She said, “If single call or SMS receive I will fired you?”

    End of the story.