Is Dating Easier For Women Than It Is For Men? Survey

Did you watch Jeff Probst yesterday? I was on it!!

To be honest, it was a surreal experience watching myself on that show but it was awesome.  It was so great to see that I am achieving my dream! It was also amazing to see how big a response the show created.  I got so much traffic to my site yesterday from the show that it actually crashed.

Freak out aside, it was pretty amazing! What was more amazing that the people coming to my site were WOMEN. Women who want my help meeting men.

Now I know you may think “what do women need advice for? It’s so easy for them.”

But  I got emails, that also included pictures, from beautiful women all across the United States and Canada. These women were telling me that they are having trouble meeting men and they wanted my help. I gave these women a survey to find out why they were having trouble and their responses were shocking.

They were not shocking because they were extreme or out of this world.

They were shocking because they were the exact same responses that I get from guys when they fill out one of my surveys.

The top 3 things women listed as the reason why they were having trouble dating were:

1. Motivation – Not sure where to meet men and not doing anything right now to meet men

2. Confidence – they were nervous, shy and didn’t think they were good enough

3. Conversation – Did not know what to say or what to talk to men about

Crazy right?

Thousands of beautiful women, came to my website looking for answers on how to get the men they want and the top 3 things holding them back are most likely the same 3 things holding you back.

I knew I had to share this information with you ASAP.

I Want To Know What You Think!

Do you still think women have it easier than men?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this

Please make sure to LIKE it and share it with others because I want to know what they think as well!

 

More Articles

  • Brian1963

    Sometimes people have jobs that keep them VERY busy! Yes it can be hard to know what to talk about, but just keep it simple and don’t get all tense and nervous. A simple hi can break the ice.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      I agree Brian sometimes a ‘hi’ and a relaxed smile is all it takes

      Marni :-)

  • Jazzyjeff

    Women have more og a choice!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Not all women! And I bet some women would say they keep picking the wrong ones too

      Marni ;-)

  • Jazzyjeff

    Women have more og a choice!

  • PatrickL

    I don’t think any sex has it “easier.” I believe it is more related to the individual’s level of self esteem. Low self esteem = difficulty finding dates. Having the feeling of low value in yourself affects your life negatively in all facets. Believe in yourself and the rest will fall into place.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      So true Patrick! You gotta believe that you deserve to be happy and have a great person in your life

      Marni :-)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      a woman can have low self-esteem, be insecure and still get a boyfriend, a date, a relationship, but almost never the other way around

      • Marni Wing Girl

        Makes you wonder though what kind of relationships she will be having in that case.
        Marni :)

  • donquixote

    yes they do women are,ones that choose ..when a man has approached a woman he has already chosen to know her , but then he must wait to be chosen or accepted too continue in that part she does have it easier …it is easier to choose than to be chosen

  • Raaj

    Well its the guys who have to do the approach, focus more on their body language, and tonality, and respond to a women’s challenges…so in some respects yes I do think women have it easier than men…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      yeah it depends on what perspective you look at it from, women have the final say, they just have to accept or decline

  • F

    Absolutely not. Life is not only about how you view and perceive but also how you react to those things. I would say those who think they have it easier are missing some parts.
    For instance: Sure, they realistically (most certainly more beautiful women) can decide who to be with. But what does choose really mean?
    It is a known fact that humans (male and female) desire what they can’t have, no matter what it is. It’s also known that men are more visual
    and females more about emotion/connection/etc. This is why, of course, the romance novels are so popular. I am male and I have read some and they
    are not only full of emotion they are full of tension, excitement, and fantasy. Meanwhile, women also want to be led and they want a protector too.
    They love confidence and they love to laugh and all of that is related to emotion too. What that means is they want a man who can fullfill their true
    desires: emotional and physical (as in intimate) as well as having someone to listen to them and be part of their life.

    As for choosing: women typically will be drawn to those who can satisfy their needs and desires and it’s less about looks. That’s
    why it’s not unheard of that women will get intimate with someone who is “ugly” or “bald” or whatever else. Why would they choose someone
    who cannot satisfy them (in bed and otherwise) if there is someone who can? It’s sort of like most men would not get intimate with a women
    they find hideous or unattractive in some way or another. The reason is all about what each desire and need. And women do not generally want
    to choose but be chosen and led. The problem is that most men do not know what it takes to be the chooser and instead end up chasing (and
    by chasing it scares them away).

  • disqus_Yt5hKQfmZw

    On paper it might seem like women have it easier, but I’ve noticed one thing.. When you’re confident and display those traits ( and I mean really display those traits not ACT like you are confident) then women will actually approach you. The key, i found is to go out With no agenda…. Most single guys go out with one agenda.. ie. to get laid or to find a gf…in doing so they display all the charecteristics of the ‘hunter’. Go out with a REAL carefree attitude and suddenly the tables are turned.

    • skw

      what you said makes zero sense.

      so its ok to have an agenda, as long as that agenda is: have no agenda.

      if i have a REAL carefree attitude, then whether women like me and want to have sex with me or not is MOOT. why would I want it, if I’m so carefree about it?

  • Just sayin

    I think we as men in general think women have it easier because they control the sex. Really most woman unless she is truly hideous can advertise that she’s looking. Here I am take me, and some guy(s) will show up Junk in hand. It’s my lucky day!!! So from that stand point. Sure, they may have it easier, and as guys we’re jealous as hell, because we wish it were that easy for us, but what quality is she really getting? I could go pick up a new unattractive woman everyday and sleep with a couple of new ones every week. It’s sex, but what quality is it? What happens after I’m done? “Who” is this person. Does she truly excite me? I’m guessing it’s the same thing for them. Getting “who” you want is probably just as tough for both sexes,

  • http://www.facebook.com/DavidAndrewHowe David Andrew Howe

    Women get hit on 24/7 most being the same old crap which makes it feel cheap and lose it’s meaning the man is trying to convey to the woman when approaching. So the question then is when and where is the best place to go to get the more mature men that will at least be more interesting in their approach and conversation. Then there is the constant nag of his he just after me for xxx for a night or something more meaningful? which lets face it guys we may like to f about but it doesn’t do anything for the woman confidence in meeting a man unless she is into one night stands. so where to go for the more steady man. A which point the defence raise to filter the one nighters unless low and need pick me up sex.
    Then is the man fixated on just how she looks when on a night out or how independently wealthy she is, In order to show off as I candy to other men as a status thing. Not seeing her as a woman with some mutual interests but a different view on life and personality that needs space to grow by herself. which the too needy men try to do for her that will rankle and get dumped. so another filter for a confident non a-hole , Then there is the personality of the man or inner view point or compass on life like going to church, god , is abortion moral wrong ? God creates man / Darwin and 2001 theme tune, we the people or Do as I say. marriage or open relationship? If there is a sticking point in which both are at different views it may be a deal breaker. So more filters then there is the person preference and kink factor to add. more filters. Still think women have it better then men?

    • http://www.facebook.com/Seabridgeman Clive Bridgeman

      That’s good David, and then when you add that women often have a poor self-image (yes, even when they are beautiful), and underneath the clothes and make-up lives a person with needs but not REAL confidence. She will even doubt her own ability to find the right guy!

  • Alberto Ignacio Gonzalez

    If women see that you’re confident and grounded, but really confident (not pretending), they’ll approach you. That survey Marni made just said that there’s a lot of men that are just not confident and dudgebags are winning over them. Remember, is not the way women behave, is the way men react to women’s behavior. So just be a man and take the lead.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Love this Alberto

      “Remember, is not the way women behave, is the way men react to women’s behavior. So just be a man and take the lead” and yes true confidence in anyone (men or women!) is always super attractive

      Marni :-)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      not gonna hold my breath for that to happen

  • donquixote

    just think people female ARE much more prepared like it or not ..and more experienced in the courtship process because she is hit on by so many men they are not being rejected or filtered until she is seen without her test or filtering process then its on or off in the relationship

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Don

      Trouble is… women often don’t know they’re being ‘hit on’ (as maybe the guy doesn’t do it in a way where his intentions are made clear?) and even when they are hit on, it’s often not in the way they want. That’s not to say women are perfect- but it can be hard to tell the good guys from the bad eggs sometimes

      Marni :-)

  • Robert T

    I still think women have it easier than men because most of the reason women are not finding men is because they disqualify all day long when it comes to men. One reason they do this is because there selection is so wide. If a man does one thing wrong then they are out of the game or put in the friend zone. I think the women coming to you for advice are to picky & are looking for a perfect guy & of course that does not exist more than not or they may possibly shutting down emotionally & mentally when they are out for a night or just in there day to day. There energy must be open to the possibly or it won’t happen. Just one mans opinion.

    Ciao!

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Robert

      appreciate that you said it’s just your opinion: I would say that women’s options don’t often feel as ‘wide’ as you may think. PLENTY of my girl friends have told me over the years how they feel like they never get approached (either guys aren’t direct enough, or miss their signals) or wonder where all the good guys go. Dating is tough on both sides, for different reasons, so it’s definitely good if you- as a man- can appreciate that it goes both ways, it will help you to connect with more women

      Marni :-)

  • Damon

    If the women are
    ugly then they have it almost as bad as
    us. If there beautiful they have it way more easier. No doubt about it. If a nice looking women
    walks into a bar or where ever and said who’s going home with me tonight? As
    long as she looked respectable and not look like a hooker I bet she goes home
    with somebody and not only that she gets dinner on the way home if she
    wanted. A beautiful women probably
    doesn’t even have to have a job. A
    beautiful women can fall in love with someone fast because she can date lots of
    guys in a very short amount of time. She will just takes her pick. The women who
    are writing for advice must be ugly, no way could they be pretty. Here’s something else. If Marni was ugly
    would you take her advice on what girls want and how they think? Nope, probably
    not.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Seabridgeman Clive Bridgeman

      Why would a nice woman walk into a bar? Get real… that’s where you would find all the one-night stand seekers and sleazeballs, not Mr.Right

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Damon

      I can understand how you arrived at that conclusion, but I don’t think you’ve considered a few things:

      1. No one is beautiful forever, so no woman can truly rely on that
      2. A hot woman may have her pick of guys she can hook up with, but how tough is it to find the one in that bar who she connects with & who respects her enough to want a relationship with her?
      3. I hope i’d still have some advice that was worth listening to, regardless of what I look like

      Marni ;-)

    • skw

      “If the women are ugly then they have it almost as bad as us”

      yes, fat and ugly women do have it difficult, but their rejection is “no one approaches me” and their “having it bad” is with respect to OTHER WOMEN. ie HOT Women. so yes, they do have it harder… than OTHER WOMEN. not harder than guys!

      lets say a fat ugly woman lives in a world where she can approach with no “social stigma” she still has to make herself less fat and ugly, right?

      so that difficulty doesn’t go away. yet if men lived in a world where we could just sit back and wait, we’re much better off – clearly showing its an advantage.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Seabridgeman Clive Bridgeman

    Women of all types have a very difficult time. Most are looking for a man who they can trust to make a family, not just to fuck for one night. Guys are usually looking for the opposite – no strings sex. You have to make love to a woman’s mind first, then she is yours. But how does a woman get to find a man who is clever enough to even notice her mind?? :-)

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Clive

      I think whilst there are tons of confident, self assured women out there I agree with your thoughts that there are plenty of women who find it really tough to meet the ‘right’ guy, not just any guy!

      Marni :-)

    • Rick

      Clive this is absurd. A beautiful woman has it waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy easier. There life may not be perfect but lets be honest here, men notice women all the time. Women play games wiht men all the time. Women go after the best they can and in many cases today will take no exceptions.

    • Parkey

      I disagree about all women not wanting just sex. A female friend of mine went on a date with a guy and practically laid it out to him that she didn’t want a boyfriend but would really like some company that night. He responded by getting nervous, then drunk, having no plan and then managed to cut her with her own earrings by being far too rough when she eventually got him to try to kiss her.

      As guys we are masters of self-sabotage, if we don’t take the time to sort these skills out.

    • MM

      You know absolutely nothing about women, Clive.

      99,9% of all men are clever enough to notice a woman’s mind, so stop posting that crap that would normallly come from a woman.

    • Urusigh

      What makes you think guys are usually looking for one-night stands? One guy looking for a hookup each night and one guy trying to build a long-term relationship with a significant other are both one guy devoting his time and effort to a woman. The fact that guy A is with a different woman each night while guy B is still wooing his sweetheart does not change the number of men on either side of the equation. Guy A just gets seen more often by women looking to hook up because he is also looking for them. This is like saying “most women are strippers because every woman I date is a stripper.” when you’re only looking for women in strip clubs. Finding a man committed to having a long term relationship is difficult not because there are less of us (really, there are more), it’s because we aren’t looking for single women while we are still happy with the partner we have.

      …and those poor guys who’ve been crushed so many times by rejection and getting dumped over the smallest thing that they’ve just given up on any woman willing to actually hold up her end of a relationship, so why shouldn’t they just take what they can get? It’s a lousy philosophy, but I’ve seen it happen more than once to nice guys who got used and trashed by attractive women with a similar philosophy.

  • F Kilani

    I think its the wrong question to ask. because the challenge are different due the differences of the two sexes. we learned that women think and communicate differently -thanks to Marni- and we -men- had difficult time in dating because we weren’t aware of that fact. the same applies to the women who aren’t aware that we think and communicate differently ,therefore the dating is not easier for women.

    I agree that theoretically any woman who is attractive enough can persuade a single man to date her, but in reality women can’t do that and I can’t explain it but I can remind of some previous situations I had experienced and I’m sure other guys experienced it as well.

    I went to many event to meet new people (socialize), at some events I wasn’t interested to pick up any woman , I approached a group of women and start talking and having a good time one of the women become interested in me but I was clueless, she started to give signal after signal without any response from my side thought she did a tremendous effort because I wasn’t sure about those signals and .later her friends who become my friends (some girls should in you friendship zone in order to be a better man) told me but it was too late she was already left the country and won’t come back for at least two years if she didn’t already give up on me. note that girl is smoking hot girl who have a master degree in archaeology.

    maybe this is the reason why women had trouble to find a date because the target is usually clueless.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey F

      I think this is a really helpful example of how neither side has it ‘easy’, or is ‘wrong’ but that something gets lost in translation: because I bet the beautiful woman left the country thinking, ‘I was giving him all the signs? Why wasn’t he into me?’

      At least now you’re aware of what those signals are though, and I hope in the future that you’ll take action to approach, approach, approach regardless!

      Marni :-)

  • Parkey

    Which woman? Which man? I don’t think this question has an easy answer.

    It’s very very easy to get bitter about the people who seem to have it all handed to them on a silver platter. In doing so though we lose sight of the fact that the people we want to connect with are human, with their own issues and hangups.

    On occasion in the past I have talked to women, sensed discomfort and immediately assumed it was because I was doing something wrong. The idea that she might be experiencing stage fright because finally someone good has approached her just didn’t occur to me, so focused was I on my own outlook.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Parkey

      Yep it’s definitely smart to be aware of what the other person is going through, it will help you to connect with women so much better.

      Marni :-)

    • Bill O

      Parkey – I totally understand what you are saying!!

      • Marni Wing Girl

        Good to see you boys giving us ladies a break ;)
        Marni :)

  • Will-yum

    I don’t think it’s so much about who has it easier, that sets it up as an ‘us’ against ‘them’ kind of thing. Pitting one against the other is all too prominent in todays society. We are all in this thing together. Marni, you just verified to us that men and women share the same reasons for dating troubles and meeting the right kind of people.(thanks again for the shared insights)
    One of the most congruent messages I get throughout Marnis’ blogs, videos and products is that you need to focus on yourself and your own motivations first. Once you’ve been honest with yourself about your motivations and intentions you place yourself in the position of being able to most likely succeed.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Will

      I think this sums things up brilliantly, and I agree if we all understand we are human beings with similar flaws and and desires it gets a lot easier. And 100% focus on you first, and everything else will fall into place

      Marni :-)

  • Athirson

    Of course women have it easier. All they have to do is look their best, and choose wisely. And, judging by the divorce rate, a good number of them can’t handle that second part.

    We, on the other hand, have to pull everything off, and pay for it to boot. And it has to be perfect, otherwise you get blown out.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Athirison

      I have to say I don’t think that’s accurate- surely if a relationship goes wrong for example it is in part the woman’s ‘fault’ for not handling/ pciking correctly; but the man who’s involved is responsible too for his own behavior, right?

      I also know there are a ton of women out there who wish they were approached more and wonder where all the good guys are. It’s tough on both sides, believe me!

      Marni :-)

  • Randy

    Woman have it easier when it comes to having sex with the person they want, ( fact ) but both men and women have trouble finding the right person to be in a relationship with. I believe we have trouble in our love lives because we are all brain washed by tv and society, and most of us can’t think for ourselves. Most of us try to form a relationship with someone based on shallow reasons ( looks, money, social status,…….. ) this never works, thats why the divorce rate is so high. As a man i had to learn not to place value on a women based on her looks alone. I can’t speak for women, but we all must learn to feel with our hearts and not our eyes. If we were all blind, no one would be lonely

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Randy,
      You’re right on the money- looks alone won’t keep anyone interested forever. Still, that doesn’t mean you can’t appreciate a beautiful lady whilst appreciating what comes out of her mouth.
      Marni :)

  • Jason

    If you look deeper you see men and women are very much alike. both judge based on preconceived ideas on what they think they want, not what could actually work. both see a choice between two options: one with many green flags, but a few red flags; or one with many yellow flags, with a few green flags. both sides are still just people trying to get by in the world. very few can force themselves to look past the obvious to see whats going on in others. If anything someone has to calm the others fears and doubts persistently to show that a yellow flag is not based in fact. then its a game between one with many green flags, but a few red flags; or someone with only green flags. or as they say, real relationships are works in progress, not perfect from day one. I’ve seen it happen to both sides, neither really has the power or has it any easier. so were all human, not two alien races trying to merge. All I can say hope it helps.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Jason,
      Sounds like you’re half way there. There’s no way to get past the fact men and women have preconceived ideas of what they want from a partner. That’s why we have to seize the day and take a chance on a spark. If you never take the first step you won’t get past the shallows!
      Marni :)

  • Bill O

    Women are the fuel…..men are the spark. We both want sex. What ignites between them when she’s dressed up out with her friends may not work when she’s home with her children texting on her phone. She has had a lifetime of being approached and lied to – thus has developed qualifying behaviors. As soon as she says “No” any potential relationship is gone. If the man continues to pursue – then he takes on the path of futility.
    The man has to approach. Mathematically there is a only a 25% chance that they will hit it off. However, women are illogical, emotional – and usually can spot neediness – thus reducing that number to 10%. Women have it easier because they are more likely to say “no” than a man is.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Bill,
      Remember, you have to risk failure in order to ultimately succeed!
      You’re right, women love leaders so, go out there and approach, approach, approach.
      Marni :)

  • KevinS

    Marni,

    The problem with most women is that they don’t have any hobbies. A woman’s hobby is talking and most men are not in the mood to talk unless it’s about something they like. Sports, Cars, Comic Books, Movies, Play Video Games, Fishing ect… Tell these women they need to get a hobby if they don’t already. Also women need to learn to leave the house, I walk around and search and search and can’t find any women attractive other than the gym, which of course not a lot of them enjoy being approached mid work out. :)

    Us men like to venture out.

    • Parkey

      I think this is very true. In general when it comes to activities women seem to be motivated more by the company they are in than the challenge of the activity itself. Dance classes are often touted as the ideal place to meet plenty of women, but even these are a man buffet for a woman who is looking. There are nearly always more men than women, and this tips even further if you compare the numbers who are actually single. I think plenty of women do dancing to enjoy the thrill of being desired by men but with the safety of going home to their boyfriend or husband afterward.

      This is where it’s important to understand that where to meet women is a state of mind, not a physical place. It’s not about finding a rich geological seem of single women to mine and exploiting it, rather it’s about living life 24/7 in a way that is attractive to women and following through every opportunity that can present itself at any time. To find the needle in a haystack just become a very powerful magnet.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Not sure I agree with that Kevin. Try to venture out and meet women at events linked with your hobbies (comic book conventions, book stores, mixed sport teams). You might be surprised with what you find.
      Marni :)

    • StarSapphiresfan

      Ever heard of “grassroots roller derby” ??? There’s a growing number of women taking that sort of hobby too !!!

      • Marni Wing Girl

        Great suggestion Star!
        Marni :)

  • KevinS

    Women have it easier, much easier to meet men online than men have it to meet women online. I’ve put up a fake profile as a woman before, 200 emails in a week, Men get about 0-3 emails a week if he’s lucky.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Once we accept the boundaries of the game we can get down to winning. Get out there and show her why you’re worth her time more than the other 199 guys.
      Marni :)

  • Chris

    sorry but i find this hard to believe. every woman that I meet or know who is even moderately pretty and has a nice personality is in a relationship or married. always.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Chris,
      Sounds like you need to get out there a meet some new women. Next time you see a woman with a book in coffee shop, go up, ask her what she’s reading about and introduce yourself. If your current circle is all attached it’s time to cast a wider net!
      Marni :)

  • Rick

    yes it depends on the women and the men. If the woman is very attractive, she has the pick of the litter. She will be desired for years and can pretty much call the shots. If the guy has money, status or is handsome, then he has great advantages. But overall women have it much easier. They can reject the man, they can approach the man and they pretty much make the decisions in the dating’mating game. Women by far.

  • Shiraz

    To all men here:

    I’m real tempted to agree with most of you and say that yeah, women totally have it way easier. And that’s the way I used to think. But I know the other perspective now from working with people like Marni and talking to women.
    From a woman’s perspective, she has WAY more social pressure and “risks” then us men do. She’s damned if she does, and damned if she doesn’t. If she takes the initiative to approach a guy, she might be seen as too “easy” or slutty, and be judged accordingly.
    If she doesn’t approach, well then what is she to do? Hope and pray that handsome guy over there notices her and has the balls to finally approach her? Society tells her that’s the only way it works.
    And sadly, the guys that do approach her, hit on her, and email her nonstop on Match.com and Facebook are weirdos, creeps, and guys who give all their power away. Or they have no clue how to spark her interest.
    On the other hand, as men we’re are expected and encouraged to go after the girl we like. And the more girls we talk to and approach, the more we earn points from society.
    We have the luxury to get up and go after what we want without any ‘risks’… unlike women.
    It’s a double-standard that’s NOT fair to a woman.
    This is not to say that men do have it easier or vice versa. This is just something to think about before answering Marni’s question.

    • skw

      “She’s damned if she does, and damned if she doesn’t. If she takes the initiative to approach a guy, she might be seen as too “easy” or slutty, and be judged accordingly.

      judged by who? surely not men.in the 5 times Ive been approached by women my entire life, I’ve never thought “ugh this girl is so easy get away”

      A note to any girl reading this, if you find me attractive, walk right up to me and say, “im attracted to you and want to have sex with you” if I think you’re attractive I will not think you’re being “easy”

      “We have the luxury to get up and go after what we want without any ‘risks’… unlike women”

      Hah. this isn’t a luxury, this is a demand and burden.

      How are there no ‘risks’? OF COURSE there is risk, you’re risking your emotion. You’re risking not getting what you want, yet again.

      yes, believe it or not, men have emotions too! maybe you can get rejected 100s of times and just brush it off, but some of us get a little down when that happens. Personally I think it sucks to high hell.

      If there was no risk, then why would women want men to do it? Women DONT do it precisely because there is risk!

      the only way to have no “risk” is to have no care for the outcome, of course if there’s no care for the outcome, there’s no reason to take the action in the first place. Risk and “care for outcome” is synonymous.

      “And the more girls we talk to and approach, the more we earn points from society.”

      What kind of nebulous nonsense is this? and where exactly is this big societal point collection taking place? is it like earning points at the grocery store? at the end of each month does “society” send me a coupon if I’ve approached and gotten rejected by 10 women ? This is utter nonsense if I may say so myself. IN fact appraoching women and getting shut down publicly is just more opportunity for public ridicule.

      We get nothing from repeated (failed) approaches other than knowing that we yet again failed.

      • Ding Chavez

        THANK YOU!
        .
        Couldn’t have said it better!

      • Parkey

        Oh good grief!

        Just go and talk to women. If you stop trying to lock one down as your supply of sex and instead concentrate on making them feel good by doing things that make them feel attraction it’s actually a lot of fun. Plenty of women will do A LOT to make sure things happen between you and her if you stop being a needy wussbag.

        • Ding Chavez

          My Thank YOU was for skw, NOT for Parkey.
          .
          I don’t see any needy “wussbags” about.
          .
          If I wanted to have fun, I would go out and buy an Xbox.
          .
          I don’t think anyone here is against making women feel good. Just would be nice if they would return the favour.

          • Parkey

            It HAS to be fun. I keep saying this because I have found it is the KEYSTONE to attracting women, regardless of your temperament, persona or appearance. If you are acting from a place of trying to acquire a date, a phone number, sex, a woman you are broadcasting on all channels that you have scarcity in your life. Your outlook on dating comes across like a battle for survival and biologically nobody is sexually drawn to someone who is battling for survival. Your motive defiles your actions, however kind.

            If meeting women becomes an entertaining diversion in your life, something you for FUN, you are communicating that you have plenty. Do this and you don’t need to work to acquire anything, because it gets given to you.

            Mate, just loosen your grip and start enjoying the women that are all around you. You will never own one, but if you enjoy them you will start attracting them, effortlessly. If you are still thinking “First I’ll get a woman, then I’ll enjoy her” you will get nowhere!

          • Marni Wing Girl

            Very true Parkey! If you’re not having a great time with the women you meet then, what’s the point?
            Marni :)

          • Urusigh

            Jumping through hoops all the time is not fun for the majority of us. I genuinely like and enjoy the company of women and have frequently been complimented by them on my steadfast support, encouragement, and comfort to them… unsurprisingly, I get friendzoned “like a brother” A LOT. Women are wonderful friends to a nice guy, but they have a severe tendency to permanently misjudge your interest unless you make it clear, direct, and early in the relationship. that doesn’t work well for me. It’s not about “stealthing under the radar” or anything like that, it just takes me while to get to know a woman well enough to want to date her. Looks aren’t enough. Having friends is fun, dating can be fun, doing the majority of the work and taking the majority of the risk to initiate either… very rarely fun.

        • Marni Wing Girl

          Great comment, Parkey.
          Marni :)

        • skw

          but I do want sex. that’s an authentic desire.

          if I get to a point where I don’t want it, then who gives a shit whether she does things to make sure things happen?

          • Ardiana the adventurer

            Maybe you should go to Thailand or Vegas and get a hooker? Surely dating is not for all. If you just want sex then maybe that’s your path. They’re low maintenance and certainly don’t give you crap. If they do, talk to the pimp and you’ll get a replacement.
            ~AJ

      • MD

        “judged by who? surely not men.in the 5 times Ive been approached by women my entire life, I’ve never thought “ugh this girl is so easy get away”"

        Perhaps not and that is admirable. And it does not change the fact that other people may have judged the 5 women who approached you differently to how you judged them. A woman approaching a man is going to be judged by some people just as a man approaching a woman is going to be judged by some people.

        “Hah. this isn’t a luxury, this is a demand and burden.”

        Only if it is framed that way. Whose demanding that we approach women? I can get through today, tomorrow etc, as a man, without anyone demanding I approach a woman. And why is talking to someone you like a burden? Perspective and how you frame approaching women makes a huge difference here. If you see it all as a being a burden then you’re not going to be motivated to do it.

        “How are there no ‘risks’? OF COURSE there is risk, you’re risking
        your emotion. You’re risking not getting what you want, yet again.”

        Yes, there are risks involved. But you don’t have what you want so you can’t risk not getting it. You start from a place where you do not have what you want.You cannot risk something you do not have. Approaching women is risky but a lot of the power here is in where you get your validation from. Do you know you’re a good, attractive person regardless of how she thinks about you/reacts to you? Or are you looking for her to validate you?

        “yes, believe it or not, men have emotions too! maybe you can get
        rejected 100s of times and just brush it off, but some of us get a
        little down when that happens. Personally I think it sucks to high hell.”

        Oh, it does indeed suck to high hell. I’ve had some pretty darn bad experiences with women. It’s not about brushing those experiences off because it is understandable that, over time, those experiences are going to hurt and drag you down. But if those past experiences are governing your life and how you feel about yourself now then you’re gonna be in trouble.

        “If there was no risk, then why would women want men to do it? Women DONT do it precisely because there is risk! ”

        Women tend not to want men to do it so men have to put up with the risk involved. Some women do approach guys these days. It’s just the stereotype of it being “the man’s role to approach”. That’s not real. It’s just an expectation forged by a stereotype. Is it unfair? Probably. But it’s up against some other pretty darn unfair expectations placed on both genders and nobody is ever going to win the “who experiences the most unfair things” game.

        “the only way to have no “risk” is to have no care for the outcome, of
        course if there’s no care for the outcome, there’s no reason to take
        the action in the first place. Risk and “care for outcome” is
        synonymous.”

        Risk is going to show up whether you care about the outcome or not. Risk is part of life. The issue is not to try and avoid risk because you can’t. The issue is how you deal with the risks you encounter. Are you willing to take sensible risks in order to go outside of your comfort zone and develop as a person?

        “What kind of nebulous nonsense is this? and where exactly is this big
        societal point collection taking place? is it like earning points at
        the grocery store? at the end of each month does “society” send me a
        coupon if I’ve approached and gotten rejected by 10 women ? This is
        utter nonsense if I may say so myself. IN fact appraoching women and
        getting shut down publicly is just more opportunity for public ridicule.”

        There certainly is the risk of public ridicule. However, it is possible to be respected by other people in society if you show you are confident enough to go and approach girls, be friendly, be social etc. Society certainly can be seen to reward confident behaviour.

        “We get nothing from repeated (failed) approaches other than knowing that we yet again failed.”

        Again, perspective and how you frame things are going to make the difference here. And this is not wild thinking. Scientific studies show the power of belief, framing your thinking etc. But even if you do frame things not going right as a “failure” you do get something out of each failure. You get the chance to evaluate what happened. You get the chance to look at what you did and see if you can change things to make the outcome different. You get the chance to discuss things with dating coaches, friends etc. And you get external world evidence that you did something, went outside your comfort zone and got a result. It might not have been the result you wanted but you’re not God and can’t control people. You approached someone.

        Scale back the goal. Make the goal simply to approach some women and talk to them. No outcome other than that. No trying to get sex, date, numbers. Just approaching women. See what happens. That will give you the experience of approaching women and not failing. And once you experience how good that feels you can go out to having different goals and outcomes.

        • skw

          “Make the goal simply to approach some women and talk to them.”

          But that’s inauthentic. because my goal is to get sex, dates and numbers. There’s no use pretending something isn’t true when it clearly is.

          Are you suggesting I lie to myself?

          • MD

            No, I am not suggesting you lie to yourself. I am suggesting you experiment by having a different goal to the goal you usually have. For a brief period of time (you decide how long) you make your goal simply to approach women. No wanting to get sex, dates/numbers etc. If those things happen, great. But they are not the goal. The goal is simply to approach women. That way you can only “fail” if you don”t approach. Approach women simply to approach women and get used to that. This is likely to give you some positive experiences interacting with women which will counter the negative experiences interacting with women that had been holding you back.

          • skw

            “I am suggesting you experiment by having a different goal to the goal you usually have. For a brief period of time”

            I’ve done this already. and any positive experiences are short lived and dont offer any of the counteracting powers you claim. Think of it this way, if someone was training for an olympic swim match you wouldn’t tell them to go into the wading pool.

            When I just approach and get women to laugh and be nice to me, what happens is, they think I’m a friend and don’t want to have sex with me. So therefore the “positive” is actually truly a negative to the real goal.

        • mattsh

          Awesome post MD, a lot of lessons there.

          I’m going to throw in an point about indifference (unattachment to outcome or whatever you want to call it) – it truly is one of the most powerful things to be learned.

          I would like to think at some point in the future, we can stop framing ‘approaching’ as being SO important, so critical, so anxiety and ridicule/judgement inducing – and that it would be something men AND women did naturally – the Social Freedom principle. I will also slip in that I think it’s really tenuous thinking that whoever approaches will then definitely play the leader or ‘masculine role’ in any relationship that ensues – it’s only a first conversation – it’s not something that is of cosmic importance to the either party.

          If the main objection or fear of approaching for both men or women is judgement – then being indifferent and just doing it because you want to – solves it head-on. You wouldn’t care what anyone else thought – even the person you were approaching. That has helped me a lot in breaking down my social/approach anxiety I used to suffer from. I don’t think any man or woman would want someone in their life who is judgmental or threatened by someone who just wants to say hi and have a short conversation – so it’s a great immediate filter.

          So there is no really is no excuse for men OR women not to approach – society as a whole (myself included) needs to drop this fear of being judged.

      • Ardiana

        “the only way to have no “risk” is to have no care for the outcome, of course if there’s no care for the outcome, there’s no reason to take the action in the first place. Risk and “care for outcome” is synonymous.”
        Well you can “hedge” the risk in a certain way so there’s no risk. In which case it is indeed a +- situation. You choose to approach or not whether you see the glass as half full or half empty. Seeing you took all that effort to negate the risk / profit it would be a shame to not approach on my mind…
        But anyway, thinking too far like this, spinning numbers trying to protect yourself is a poverty mentality. You should be coming from a place where you have such an abundance of energy that it just flows over to the women. Not many men have that kind of energy sources in their life, though.
        ~AJ

    • Parkey

      Amen.

      Though also women are natural followers in the dance of attraction, so taking the lead in starting any relationship sets absolutely the wrong precedent. On a biological level they want a man who can lead them. That’s why women generally don’t approach.

      If you’re a man and you can’t lead… Learn to!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

        it is what it is unfortuneately

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Very well put, Shiraz. It takes two to tango, as they say and, time to time, we all trip up on the steps. It is certainly difficult on both sides for different reasons but, at the end of the day, it’s about meeting new people and sharing amazing experiences with them. Dating is a battle field but, it should still be fun!
      Marni :)

    • MM

      I always love it when women talk about double standards. It just proves how stupid, ignorant and hypocritical they are.

      There are FAR MORE double standards that are against men. You have no clue.

    • Urusigh

      “From a woman’s perspective, she has WAY more social pressure and “risks” then us men do. She’s damned if she does, and damned if she doesn’t. If she takes the initiative to approach a guy, she might be seen as too “easy” or slutty, and be judged accordingly” -Shiraz

      Where? I’m from Cali and I’ve lived in a few other countries besides. A girl down here who takes her pick of the crowd and never stays single for long is called “popular”. A woman who says “I don’t need a man” is celebrated. (Whereas a man who proclaims that he needs no woman is simply mocked for the presumed inability to get and keep one). “Slutty” is a title related to how many guys she sleeps with, not how many she talks to. I assure any woman who wonders, men are very clear on the difference between having a conversation and having sex. Is it other women who are throwing this pejorative around so freely?

      I’m not even going to address how screwed up a guy must be to somehow feel “less masculine” by virtue of learning that a woman found him too attractive to just sit back and risk letting him walk away without at least making a try for his attention. Myself and a great many other men actively fantasize about having this happen. There are entire programs dedicated to teaching men how to get women to approach us. Ladies, “the approach” is always a risk and you can get hurt. At best, it’s a matter of playing the odds. That said, nothing happens if nobody makes a move. Men are really, really bad at catching and interpreting what you might consider very clear signals. Either dial it up a few notches or make a move yourself. You at least have one more option than we do.

      “And the more girls we talk to and approach, the more we earn points from society.
      We have the luxury to get up and go after what we want without any ‘risks’… unlike women.” – Shiraz

      Uh no, not anywhere I’ve ever been or heard of. Getting shot down all night every night doesn’t earn you points from society. It gets you mocked and ridiculed by both genders. At least the wallflower woman is only facing the peer abuse from one side. Experiencing direct rejection again, and again, and again is painful and can do a massive number on a guy’s self esteem, which makes it even harder for him to ever succeed. Even the odd success can trap him into a fake role he adopted just because nothing else seemed to be working. Having to “act like a jerk” to get through the bitch shields isn’t any more kind to the man doing it than the girl receiving it.

      I appreciate that we have much laxer standards for fashion and completely avoid the expense and hassle of make-up, but men have it harder on the social side, especially since women have relative freedom and approval to end the relationship at any time for any reason, while the guy often gets little sympathy if he finds himself being taken advantage or dumped over unstated expectations or minor misunderstandings. If the majority of women expect each other to really invest in a relationship (prior to marriage anyway), I haven’t seen it. The standard put out even on relationship sites trends more toward “show up, be hot, dump him at the first hint of failure and move on”. In the meantime men are expected to nearly always make the first move, pay for everything, and accept having to constantly take the tests first and receive lesson after, if at all. It might even out over the long term, but the upfront risk is mostly on the male side.

      I’m really thankful that Marni is working to even this out and make it easier to find a great partner from both sides.

    • Wesley

      I know I feel your pain…it must be unbearable to have man after men Uniate everything and want to spend time with you and try as they might just get rejected and frustrated. You must have it so rough to come home from work and see 30 new male emails expressing interest. While the men have literally less than zero expressing interest let alone setting up a date and paying and spoiling you. Please just shut up.

    • kofybean

      Never in my life have I heard of a guy judging a woman harshly because she talked to him first. Wth did you even get that falsehood?

  • Joe

    Women have it easier. the problem is that women constantly disqualify men (i’ve heard about women with 75 point checklists that a man has to meet) and then turn around and complain that they can’t meet anyone. I feel that many are actually more interested in not meeting anyone so that they can complain to their girlfriends (this goes double for women online). You know those girls who have boyfriends and husbands? those are the women who actually want to have a BF/Husband!

    • Ding Chavez

      TRUE!
      .
      I know women who actually go out to see how many men they can reject in a night.
      .
      Yep, good way to find a man.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Joe,
      I can see why you’d think that but, give women a chance! Not everyone is out there with a 75 point check list.
      Either way, the more women you meet the more likely it is you’ll end up ticking all her boxes. So, take the plunge!
      Marni :)

    • Ardiana the adventurer

      Women have a pathological need to tell their girlfriends they’re not happy with their current boyfriend, even though they are. This all boils down to the same “must not appear too easy”- complex.

  • Ding Chavez

    Women have it FAR easier dating than men.
    Their poor choices and BS blockades is what makes it difficult for them.
    .
    Women complain that this man is a “creep” or this one is “weak.” when in reality they really don’t even KNOW the man at ALL!
    .
    Women reject guys because of the most ridiculous things.
    .
    If a woman walked up to me that has the look I like, there is NO way I would reject her because she’s nervous or doesn’t have the snappiest conversation.
    .
    Women’s tests and BS create their problems for them, so in reality ALL of their problems are self inflicted, thus absolutely deserved.
    .
    Men create none of their own problems. We have to spend vast amounts of time trying to decipher female “language”, dodge landmines, pass ridiculous tests, and have to look like a movie star or be rich.
    .
    If a woman is alone, it is because of her choice to be ridiculous.

    • Parkey

      If (hopefully when – if you start listening) you figure out how to be attractive you will experience those encounters from the other side and feel sympathy for the women who have to put up with being approached by guys who are so terrified of being rejected they bury their personalities. Trust me, women do it too. I’ve felt the ick and it’s not present.

      When you know you’re attractive you want to be with someone else who knows they’re attractive. Even as a guy it’s not an appealing feeling to know that you’re the only thing making someone feel good about themself.

      • Ding Chavez

        Parkey
        .
        I am listening. I’m also thinking clearly.
        .
        I don’t have movie star looks, so I don’t worry too much about being attractive.
        .
        Most guys could handle being approached by women who are afraid of being rejected, especially if they are our types.
        .
        Guys only bury their personalities because women play so blasted many games. If I say this, I’m creepy. If I say that, I’m needy. If I come off this way, I’m too nice. It’s enough to drive one mad.
        .
        A woman that I find attractive, says yes and goes out with me, and doesn’t play games is a VERY appealing feeling regardless of what makes them feel good about themselves.

        • Parkey

          Say that again when you’ve been there. Needy is UGLY!

          • Ding Chavez

            @334694c148ab8bd448841afe726c83f6:disqus
            I HAVE been there. I had a girl that was very needy. I LOVED it.
            Needy wasn’t ugly to me.
            Her ugliness was ugly to me. I had absolutely NO attration to her. She just wasn’t my type. Not at all.
            The ONLY thing I found attractive was the fact that she wanted to talk to me 75 times a day.
            .
            I wish I could have been attracted to her, because that was a manageable situation.
            .
            Now, if I could find a woman that’s my type and that needy, I would be walking down the aisle.

          • reuel

            Trust me when I say you wouldn’t want a girl who is super needy and feels the need to talk to you 75 times a day. Just 5 times a day was bad enough for me to dump my ex. How the hell am I to get any work done if I have to talk to a girl 75 times a day?

            Even if it is exaggerated, and she only talks to you 10 times a day, that’s almost once every waking hour!

            Unless of course you’re living off a mountain of inheritance and can spend the entire day with her for the rest of your life, I suggest you wake up your idea of “The ONLY thing I found attractive was the fact that she wanted to talk to me 75 times a day.”

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey DC,
      It’s important to put yourself out there and approach women but, if self inflicted problems are deserved then we all (men and women) have to be responsible for ourselves. Just because she’s browsing doesn’t mean she has to buy, especially if you’re giving her an orange when she’s looking for an apple.
      Marni :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      unfortuneately, men are expected to take way more personal responsibility than women are

    • Technoboy

      Couldn’t have said it better myself, Ding! This part hits home with me most:

      “Women complain that this man is a “creep” or this one is “weak.” when in reality they really don’t even KNOW the man at ALL!”

      It’s stunning how quickly women will cast judgement on a guy and reject him. I just heard a woman talk about how she cancelled a first date because the guy didn’t message her before the date. I also heard some girlfriends commiserating about how right it was to reject a guy for having dirt under his fingernails. Really, you can’t make this stuff up! And then we get called superficial.

      In the narrow sense of valuing looks: OK, I discriminate against out of shape people. And if you have a pretty face you can probably get away with more things than other girls. Guilty as charged. But beyond that, I judge people based on their actions and their character, not their smalltalk skills, mannerisms, posture, fingernails, shoes, socioeconomic status, relationship with their parents, …

    • Maria

      Get past the look you like Ding! Taste it before you judge if you like her, you are bypassing many quality women who have internal beauty that shines through only after you get to know them a little

  • Ding Chavez

    @Marni

    .

    I noticed something in your blog post. You said women had trouble with…

    “2. Confidence – they were nervous, shy and didn’t think they were good enough

    3. Conversation – Did not know what to say or what to talk to men about”

    .
    Now, if a man had problems with confidence, women would hold us up as some kind of “creepy”, or completely undesirable loser. If a man didn’t knock a woman’s socks off with his opening line, he will get ignored or sent to the “friendzone.”
    .
    How does this make any sense?
    .
    I’ve never rejected a woman because of a lack of confidence.
    .
    I KNOW I have dated women who had terrible conversation skills.
    .
    Sensing another double standard…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      confidence, social-skills and conversation skills are far more important for men to have than for women to have

  • Chuck

    I definitely enjoy being a man, we have the upper hand and control. There is no doubt about it we are the dominant sex. For sure its difficult to answer the demands of being the man…. Have a great personality/funny/socially intelligent, have a great career (provider), be a leader make things happen, have strength in morals/certainty of yourself(confidence), know what you want in life and have the balls to do it. This is a great question that is a very open reflection of how we think and how we are. Its interesting that men and woman have these same obstacles but affects each sex differently due to sex roles. I think men have it easier for we have more control, looks are not as heavily weighed upon, our level of attractiveness is to a greater extent malleable.

    Its obvious that good looks have way more significance with woman. Why is it they take so much time getting ready(hurry up we gotta go….. who cares your so damn hot), why do they have to have all these accessories, why do they battle/fear aging more than males? Because males notice hot chicks, that’s how we are hard wired. We are instantly turned on, as in ready to go. We do not need emotional approval or character judgement, maybe for a relationship but majority and initially this is how it works. Men are more physically biased then women are. If your an unattractive female your pretty much screwed except for smaller population of males that have decent development of self and can overlook looks (no pun intended). There is not much she can do. Men on the other hand can be fat and ugly and still get hella chicks if he is funny or has some kind of talent/ influencing power. That’s tangible we can improve our attractiveness to a greater degree. Sure there’s all this make up plastic surgery and stuff but there’s a limit and inconvenience to that. A mediocre physically attractive woman with great personality would get less attention than a mediocre physically attractive man with great personality.

    Men make decisions its what we do. We are the ones that get to say I want you. We get rejected……. a lot. Women don’t pick to the extent we do they don’t have that luxury, that’s frowned upon in society and maybe against there beliefs. What women doesn’t want a man that is sure and can take action(Yes you are attractive/interesting/ i like you, You are the one I want). Guys if its intimidating for you to approach women imagine how much harder it would be for a woman, its not there place. Women are the instigators, they are usually the ones that are starting the interaction by sending some kind of signal (flirting) so they exercise power in their own right as well. Not like the man however we don’t need signs if we are confident in our selves we can go up to whom ever we please because its what were supposed to do. We can also get away with more, we can be more aggressive, even get out of line (sometimes with successful outcomes lol) with out being branded slutty and bruising our ego.

    If I were in a woman’s shoes………. I would probably buy some more comfortable shoes. No seriously I wouldn’t want to do all this prancing around just to get noticed, and what if I didn’t that is rejection for them as well. I wouldn’t want to wait around thinking when are you gonna talk to me, are you gonna talk to me, talk to me already! I wouldn’t want to worry about my looks so much to a point that it is somewhat defining.
    Women are these emotional sensitive creatures, God just made them to damn beautiful

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Chuck,
      You’re right, women love leadership.
      Just remember, that doesn’t mean they’re weak and silly. A lot of women out there have careers and lives with just as much demand and stress as the guys they’re dating. That’s why they find confidence so attractive- dating is mean to be fun and different to work!
      Marni :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      not so sure if a man can be fat and ugly and get hella chicks

      • Marni Wing Girl

        What do you think about the other way around? ;)
        Marni :)

      • http://twitter.com/DrewDees06 Andrew West

        what do you mean the other way around?

    • Urusigh

      Uh, no. Make that HELL NO! Looks are not more heavily weighted with women, at least not in the context of dating. The vast majority of men do not know gucci from gecko, couldn’t ID “salmon” with a color splotch, and our attention to clothing is mostly limited to “less is more”. If a woman is getting beat up in the looks department, it’s a pretty safe bet isn’t coming from the men looking for dates. She can be a total plain Jane in workaday clothes and if she walks up to a single guy, smiles, and says “You interest me, you up for a date?” she is unlikely to ever hear “No”. Check out the post on Micheal Fiore’s FB page. The key things men really notice at first are eyes, smile, and posture. The huge amount of effort women put into primping themselves is a self-inflicted burden mostly unnoticed and irrelevant to guys.

  • Ashton

    Marni, I think that women have it way easier than men. Most of the time the situations I see involve extremely capable gentlemen, like myself who are just a little shy, who build up a crap-load of courage to ultimately end up getting rejected by a woman who just wasn’t open enough to give him a chance, and didn’t care either because the jerk at the end of the bar was a “hottie”. Then when they end up with the jerk, and get treated badly, they automatically label every guy after him a jerk, even though they turned down the gentleman, who would’ve been a better fit. I don’t think its right but that’s just how things are. And that makes it difficult for guys like me.

  • skw

    Of course women have it easier that men. I can’t believe this is still a discussion topic. What are we going to discuss next, if rain comes from the sky down towards the ground?

    Now, people mistake this to mean, “women have it easy” OF COURSE they don’t have it easy. Yes, it’s hard to maintain your looks, be pretty all the time, etc. etc…

    I know many girls that have been “Dating” for over 10 yrs, one girl that cycles through a diff guy every 6 months. sure she may say she has it “hard” but that’s #$()@#@$ing easy compared to someone that hasn’t dated anyone in 10 yrs because they get rejected all the time!

    they have it easIER. see that? emphasis on the ‘IER’

    Look, in every aspect of life, no one would EVER question whether it’s easier to go out and try and get something, and risk repeated failure, rather than having that something potentially fall right into your lap (literally). It completely befuddles the mind why this is even a discussion topic.

    These beautiful women that Marni talk about just don’t know how good they have it, thats all. I mean look you have baseball players and other entertainers making millions and still squable over money. Why? well because they just want more, so they talk about how “hard” it is or whatever. But these people have it easy CLEARLY compared to a dishwasher in a restaurant barely making 4.50 an hour. It’s all about perspective.

    I’ve mentioned this before but there was a great, i mean GREAT episode of beauty and the geek where the women had to go into a club and get guys #s, and no benefit of stylish clothes and makeup, just their personalities. This challenge had all these “hot girls” in TEARS. and RIGHTfully so. they got a taste of the real pain of rejection, of course for them to feel it, it has to be a contrived environment. such as a strip club. there women have to go out and approach men and ask them to get dances. and we get to sit back like kings and say no. but again. a contrived environment.

    Asking who has it easier in dating is like asking who has it easier in a strip club, men or women? duh of course men have it easier in a SC. all we do is walk in and the girls walk right up to us. 0 effort. the real world is basically flipped.

    Now here’s a point I want to respond to:

    “She’s damned if she does, and damned if she doesn’t. If she takes the initiative to approach a guy, she might be seen as too “easy” or slutty, and be judged accordingly.If she doesn’t approach, well then what is she to do? Hope and pray that handsome guy over there notices her and has the balls to finally approach her? Society tells her that’s the only way it works.”

    How does that work? A woman is “easy” if she immediately throws herself on a guy giving him approval, not if she approaches.

    I for one absolutely love it when a woman appraoches me, shows she takes initiative. thats step 1 to wanting equality with men, start acting equal. all this lilly ledbetter equal pay crap stems from that basic principle. Act as an equal, get treated as an equal.

    Believe me, it’s easier, MUCH easier to hope and pray the right guy will walk over then to work up courage (especiaily if you’ve been rejected over and over). Society (and Marni) tells guys they are worth less than dogshit if they don’t take initiative.

    Women have no such counterpart. The fact is, women CAN approach, but don’t because it’s a sign of weakness in their sense (ie the idea is, oh you’re not hot enough to get a guy to come talk to you?)

  • Ricardo

    Apples and oranges. What we are seeing here is a *result* that looks the same but we don’t see the cause. Think of it this way. In the movie “The Predator”, when the viewpoint of the alien was shown, everything looked like the alien had infrared vision. You know, where everything that was cold was in shades of green and anything that was warm was yellow/orange/red. Well, this is what it is like with women except that I’m not talking about how they see with their eyes. I’m talking about the fact that they feel the world in a heat-map of emotions if you will. If you’re the alien, you would move around in a totally different way than a human because of it. This is obvious. Yet, it is not so obvious to us men to see the fact that women will evaluate the world in a totally different way than we do. So when a woman gets 200 messages on Match.com, on one level she is probably thinking it’s cool because she has a lot to choose from, which is what we men would expect and so we think she has it easy. But that way of thinking is short-lived. Because when she starts reading the messages, it triggers certain feelings. When she sees pictures, it triggers feelings. When she sees the guys username, it triggers feelings. And once she opens the door to the wrong guy, it’s very hard to close. And dealing with the wrong guy is a perfect storm of crappy ass feelings. What we consistently fail to see is that everything…I MEAN EVERYTHING…around us has emotional content. Think of everything you see, hear, touch, smell, and taste as a message that carries an attachment…like in an email. That attachment is the emotions that the thing will trigger when it is seen, touched, smelled, felt by women. That’s why many women can’t stand clutter…it creates feelings of discomfort. They don’t like conversations where the guy is spitting out facts like a human wikipedia…it creates feelings of boredom. The color of the paint in a room…could make them feel cold and down. I can go on and on. We think that because they have so many men going after them that they’ve got it easy. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. The fact is that they JUST CAN’T FIND A MAN WHO GETS IT!!! Who understands how to see the world through her eyes. A man that gets the fact that she doesn’t actually see the world with her eyes..per se. She wants a man that understands that she sees the world with her heart. This is called *emotional intelligence* and 99% of men are emotional retards. In the movie “The Predator”, Arnold Shwartzeneggar’s character prevailed when he finally understood HOW IT WAS THAT THE ALIEN SAW THE WORLD. The rest of them who didn’t GET IT were DEAD! So the next time you ask yourself…WTF was she *thinking*….slap yourself. You should be asking yourself…what is it that she’s *feeling*…and then you might just finally see that women aren’t so goddamn alien.

    • Urusigh

      You betray your own point. (Most) Men can’t see that. You are attempting to explain color to people who see in monochrome and then blaming them for the failing. We fail miserably when we ask ourselves “what is she feeling” because we are not women, men do not process feelings the same way. At least we have a chance of success at guessing her thoughts. Now, if when we asked, “Honey, what’s wrong?” we got an answer that isn’t “You should KNOW!”, there might actually be a productive exchange of information involved. If she says “the colors in this room are too cold, please paint it x” I will have no idea how colors can be “cold” but I know exactly how to repaint a room and have no problem doing so. If she just says “this room is too cold” I am going to bring her a jacket or turn up the heat and then wonder why she isn’t thankful. A normal sighted person can relatively easily understand the view of a person who is colorblind to the difference between red and green. No matter how that person explains it though, the colorblind individual will never be able to “see” green and red, but must be told each time “this specific thing is red/green” or simply avoid all situations where the difference matters (driving being an obvious one). If men are at the emotional disadvantage in perception, than the burden is on women to accept our limitations and work around them, not us to accept blame for their impossible expectations.

  • Ricardo

    Apples and oranges. What we’re seeing here is a *result* that is the same but the truth is that the causes are very different. Think of it this way. In the movie “The Predator” when the viewpoint of the alien is shown, you can see that the alien has this sort of infrared vision. You know…where anything that is cold renders in shades of green while anything that is warm is shown in yellow/orange/red. Well, this is how it is for women. I’m not talking about how they see with their eyes. Rather, I am talking about the fact that they see the world in a heat-map of emotions if you will. So if you’re the alien and this is what you see, then you would choose to move around very differently than the human. This is obvious. But what isn’t so obvious to us men is that women evaluate the world in a very different way than we do and so they choose to operate in a very different way than we do…like the alien. So when a woman puts up a profile on Match.com and gets 200 messages, on one level she’s probably thinking this is cool because she has many offers to choose from, which is what we men would expect, so we think she has it easy. But that line of thinking is short-lived. Because as soon as she starts reading the messages, they trigger certain feelings. And she looks at the pictures and they trigger certain feelings. And she reads the username and it triggers certain feelings. And what we men consistently fail to realize is that everything, I MEAN EVERYTHING, around us has emotional content. Everything that you can see, touch, taste, smell, and hear carries with it an attachment…like in an email. And this attachment represents the emotions that the thing triggers when it is seen, heard, touched, or felt by a woman. This is why many women cannot stand clutter, because it triggers feelings of discomfort and anxiety. They don’t like men whose conversations are all about facts like they’re a human wikipedia, because it triggers feelings of boredom. The color of the paint in a room could cause them to feel cold and down. This is what people like Marni are trying to teach when they talk about the impact of body language, voice tonality, fashion, etc. All of that carries emotional content and I can go on and on ad nauseum. These emotional dynamics make it very hard for women because they can’t help it. They are born, wired like this. So if they open the door to the wrong guy, it is very hard to close. And dealing with the wrong guy is a perfect storm of crappy ass feelings. Therefore, they are very *selective* (read very disqualifying) when it comes to choosing the right guy. What the woman is looking for IS A MAN WHO FRIGGIN GETS IT. A man who understands that it isn’t all about logic and reasoning. A man who understands how to see the world through her eyes. A man who understands that the woman does not see the world with her eyes…per se. A man who understands that she sees the world through her heart. This is called “emotional intelligence”. I used to be one of those men that felt that women have it easy but NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. Because the sad fact is that 99% of the men in this world are emotional retards. So it doesn’t matter if she gets 200 messages per day or 2000 from her profile. The vast majority of those guys, if not all of them, JUST DON’T GET IT and the ones that do…well guess what…they’re probably not on Match.com or trying to be a PUA. They’ve probably got a woman that is very happy with him and he is therefore quite unavailable to her. So no. Women don’t have it easy. And the fact that this article demonstrates that they are struggling just as much as we are doesn’t surprise me in the least. Then when I read some of the comments, it simply validates it. In the movie “The Predator”, Arnold Schwarzeneggar’s character prevails when he finally realizes HOW IT IS THAT THE ALIEN SEES THE WORLD. The rest of the guys THAT DIDN’T GET IT were all DEAD! So the next time you say to yourself WTF is she thinking…slap yourself. You should be asking yourself…what is it that she’s FEELING and maybe then you’ll finally realize that women aren’t so damn alien after all.

    • Ding Chavez

      Ricardo
      .
      WOMEN NEED TO FRIGGIN GET ONE POINT. If you TELL us (with words) EXACTLY what you want, We WILL get it FOR YOU!.
      .
      If a woman will sleep with you if you wear a polka dot fedora, we will go out and GET a polka dot fedora! Tell us what you want us to see and we will see it!
      .
      If women want to be entertained, rent a movie! I don’t speak body, I speak English.

      • Ricardo

        Oh Cool! My post worked! I thought it got lost in cyberspace. Actually I see now that both posts are there, it would be great if I could edit / delete them so I can merge them into one and clean it all up cuz I made a big mess of it…but I digress. Onto your point. Man! I *wish* they could just tell us exactly what they want. I hear ya man…I hear ya. But as for me, I gave up on that a long time ago. I’m just dealing with the world as it is and not in the way that we think it should be. I believe there is no way I am gonna get any woman to think like a guy. Maybe some other guy can but I have yet to hear such a man exists and I know it’s not me. I believe that expecting a woman to tell me she wants me to wear a polka dot fedora just ain’t gonna happen even though it seems like such a simple and reasonable solution. Let me explain. Maybe she doesn’t like the old beat up Yankees hat I’m wearing because her father used to wear one just like it and he was very abusive. Every time he came home he was in a bad mood and he got into loud screaming fights with her mother, smacked her around on occasion and what not. So the fact that I wear a hat just like his reminds her of her troubled childhood but she won’t tell me that. Why? Because that would mean that she would have to reveal all of the traumatic garbage she went through as a little girl. Being that it is intensely personal and painful, she would rather not date a Yankees fan. So as long as telling me not to wear a Yankees hat means that she might have to explain the reason why, she just won’t *tell* me as you say. To further use your example…suppose now that she had a neighbor who worked as a professional clown and he wore a polka dot fedora. While her abusive dad was busy waging war in the house, she sat by the window watching him practice juggling in the yard and doing magic tricks and she absolutely loved it. She also observed that he was very kind and loving to his wife and kids. So watching this man was her way of coping during those tough times as a little girl and as a result, she always envisioned herself marrying a guy like that. Secretly she wants her man to wear a polka dot fedora and bang her on a bed of rubber duckies as they squeak to the hot rhythm but she won’t say that because she feels ridiculous that she’s got a polka-dot-fedora-wearing clown fetish. So until some guy works his way into her heart earning her full trust so she feels comfortable enough that he won’t judge her or laugh at her about her polka-dot-wearing clown fetish and her freaky rubber ducky fantasies, she just won’t *tell* the man as you say. No…she will not tell him to go out and get a polka dot fedora even though that is exactly what makes her wet because the emotions behind it are just too damn strong to reveal and it would make her so vulnerable that revealing it to a guy who isn’t totally understanding on an *emotional* level, it would just devastate her…so she won’t risk it. All of this is a scenario of an emotional world, not a logical one. Now…I realize this is all contrived to make a point using your polka dot fedora example and you are free to disagree with me and move on with your hopes to find a woman who will tell you exactly what she wants and that is your prerogative. As for me, it’s just so much easier to understand how they operate and then go with the flow. So if I put on a Yankees cap…and she goes silent…and she looks *downwards* (which psychologically means she is accessing her emotions)…and I ask her what’s wrong…and she avoids it…I”m not going to push for a logical explanation. I’m going to be savvy enough to say, “You know…on second thought…I think I’m going to leave the hat at home…” and I’d bail on the Yankees hat. Later if I’m patient and she trusts me, then she will tell me why but she doesn’t have to and I wouldn’t judge her and I’d be the guy whose bangin her on a bed of squeaky ass rubber duckies. But that’s just me. Maybe I’m an idiot for trying to understand how women feel and rolling with it. If that is the case, I hope some woman reads this and rescues me from the terrible path I’m on and tells me that I should try to help her see things logically and rationally. Until then, I’m gonna try to get better at this and see where it goes. I have a feeling I’m gonna have a lot of fun. Hell! I’m gonna put bangin a chick on a bed of rubber duckies on my bucket list! lol

        • Ding Chavez

          I don’t agree with you Ricardo, but I DO appreciate your thought out response.

          .

          You’re NOT an idiot for trying to understand how women think, but you run into a brick wall when you eventually find out they constantly change their minds.

          .

          Yeah, you might THINK it’s your Yankee cap that turns her off, but it could be the way you put it on. It could be that she’s a fan of the Florida team. It could be hats in general. It could be your shirt. Hell, with women it could be ANYTHING.

          .

          With women, you can change ONE thing and the thing you change might have NOTHING to do with why she’s rejecting you.

          .

          Her looking down might have NOTHING to do with your hat and everything to do with something you said or did an hour before. A day before. Three weeks before. Who knows?

          .

          I guess what I’m saying if a woman is having trouble with men, it’s her own silliness which is at the root of the problem. So if a woman is getting all the men she can handle, great, keep being ridiculous. If a woman is unhappy with the way her dating life goes, she has but to stop being stupid, start thinking rationally, speak her mind, and she WILL get what she wants within a day.

          .

          As a guy, you could be out here for the next 100 years trying to learn what to do. Even after all that time, you still might not get anywhere because the situation is rigged to hold you back and trip you up at every turn.

          .

          A woman, could turn her situation around 180 degrees, the very SECOND she decided to stop being absurd.

          .
          Best of luck with those duckies, by the way.

          • Marni Wing Girl

            Hey D.C,
            You need to remember that women are out there looking for partners that they get along with not just a partner in general. If they’re complaining about not meeting the right guy, it’s just that that, the ‘right’ guy not just ‘a’ guy. Most would rather be alone than with someone calling them silly, irrational and absurd. Warmth and friendliness are part of confidence not separate.
            Marni :)

    • skw

      Your entire post doesn’t address the point that women have it easIER.

      “So it doesn’t matter if she gets 200 messages per day or 2000 from her profile. The vast majority of those guys, if not all of them, JUST DON’T GET IT and the ones that do…well guess what…they’re probably not on Match.com or trying to be a PUA.

      Ok, so you’re entire argument is essentially, “it doesnt matter that women don’t have social pressures to approach rather they just sit back and wait to be approached, because no one who approaches them gets it anyway”

      Ok, I hope you see the absolute absurdity in it. Let’s say this is true for arguments sake, then how in HOLY #$)(@# does it help for them to be in a space where its “ok for them to approach”

      I for one, would murder an entire pre-school* for the ability just one day – to sit back and field 200 responses. Rather than write 200 emails and get NO responses. This entire discussion of “getting it” vs “not getting it” is completely tangential.

      Just because we agree that women have it easier in the dating process, doesn’t mean their entire lives will be free from any kind of difficulty and they’ll just be able to flutter about in the wind.

      It means what it means, that women have it easier in the dating process (particularly early on) It’s why boards like this exist and no board for women exists with posts like, “be a woman! set up a profile and start getting emails!” why???

      BECAUSE IT’S @$#($@#)(ING EASY TO F#$@#$ING DO THAT.

      *note this is exaggeration

      • MD

        “I for one, would murder an entire pre-school* for the ability just one
        day – to sit back and field 200 responses. Rather than write 200 emails
        and get NO responses. This entire discussion of “getting it” vs “not
        getting it” is completely tangential.”

        Okay, I assume you’re not being serious here. I assume you would not really murder an entire pre-school for any reason never mind the ability to sit back and field 200 responses for one day. You’ve argued on here before that the person who has to sit back and wait to be approached has it easier than the person who “has” to make the approach. This simply isn’t logical. The passive person has no power to change their situation. They are at the mercy of events and of other people’s actions. They cannot change their fate. The active person who approaches has the power to effect his situation. The active person who approaches can influence his fate and therefore, logically, must have it easier.

        Also, if women have it so easy then how is the relationship advice for women industry making any money at all? What would be the point of trying to sell advice to people who have things so easy? Surely someone who has things really easy in dating would not need advice and therefore women would not need to consult dating advice? And yet that is exactly what many women do.

        Dating advice for women is big business. Indeed, look at the top of this website where it says: “New: Advice for women”. So a board like this for women clearly does exist. If women have things so easy then why the huge market for female orientated advice on dating?

        Connecting and relating to the problems women experience in dating does not dismiss your problems as a man. Instead, by understanding where the woman you like is at you take the first step to becoming an authority in her world. If you cannot meet her where she currently is then you’re going to have problems leading her where you want her to go.

        • skw

          I replied to this, but the response was deleted. you have a well thought out response, and I’d like to respond to it.

          “Connecting and relating to the problems women experience in dating does not dismiss your problems as a man.”

          it does if the woman clearly is unable relate to those problems which is often the case.

          • MD

            If the woman cannot relate then she cannot relate. That does not dismiss the problems the man has in the same way that you, as a man, not being able to relate to her problems doesn’t dismiss those problems.

          • MM

            “You’ve argued on here before that the person who has to sit back and
            wait to be approached has it easier than the person who “has” to make
            the approach. This simply isn’t logical. The passive person has no power
            to change their situation. They are at the mercy of events and of other
            people’s actions. They cannot change their fate. The active person who
            approaches has the power to effect his situation. The active person who
            approaches can influence his fate and therefore, logically, must have it
            easier.”

            You’re forgetting that women will keep on getting contacted/approached by men no matter what they do. So your post is just plain stupid and ignorant.
            Women have ALL the power when it comes to dating even though they’re the passive ones. They just have to sit back and choose between the thousands of men willing to date her.
            If you call that having no power, then you’re fucking stupid.

            Women have it so damn easy. Guys have to do all the work, while women just have to do… Nothing. Even the fattest and ugliest women get approached by many men that are willing to be in a relationship with her. Short guys have already lost. Women despise short men, and there’s nothing that a short guy can do to make himself attractive because he’s already short – meaning that he’s disqualified. Women are a lot shallower than men are.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

            women can be passive, they are socially allowed to be, so they can be socially-awkward, insecure, boring, have little or nothing going for them in their life, and still get a boyfriend

        • skw

          Asking me (or guys that have the same experience) to be sympathetic to the problems a hot girl has in dating is like asking a homeless person to be sympathetic to Ann Romney’s problems in not being able to find the right stable for her $300,000 horse. Sure it’s a problem, no one denies that, but to draw an equivalence is just a bit much.

          Marni had sex when she was 18, she’s like the CEO of Bain Capital in the sex/dating world, guys like me, we’re in the mailroom.

          • MD

            “Asking me (or guys that have the same experience) to be sympathetic to the problems a hot girl has in dating is like asking a homeless person
            to be sympathetic to Ann Romney’s problems in not being able to find the right stable for her $300,000 horse. Sure it’s a problem, no one denies that, but to draw an equivalence is just a bit much.”

            I almost completely agree with you. I don’t know your experiences as a man and I can’t ask anything of you. Whether you have sympathy for the problems a hot girl has in dating or not is up to you. There may well be hot girls out there sympathetic to the problems men have in dating. But if people don’t meet each other at their “model of the world” (how that person sees the world) then communication and connecting doesn’t happen.Meeting a woman at her model of the world doesn’t dismiss your experiences as a man. It opens you up to getting new experiences.

            Nobody ever wins the “who has the worst problems” game. I appreciate you’ve had some bad experiences with women. I appreciate and understand that those experiences most likely hurt. And it’s natural to be frustrated and maybe even angry when you try various things and don’t see results or a change in your life. Showing empathy for a “hot girl” doesn’t dismiss your experiences or how hard you might have had it. It simply allows for new connections to be made.

          • skw

            “There may well be hot girls out there sympathetic to the problems men have in dating.”

            I have yet to meet one, hot or not.

            “Meeting a woman at her model of the world doesn’t dismiss your experiences as a man. It opens you up to getting new experiences.”

            I dont know what you mean by “meeting a woman at her model” if its a matter of recognizing her model as an incomplete, inaccurate view, then sure I can “meet that” if it means being dishonest and drawing some kind of equivalence of experiences then it’s simply untrue. And I’m not in the business of untruth, Marni may be, but I’m not.

            showing empathy for a hot girl in dating is like showing empathy for a millionaire that’s had to settle for the 300 cubic feet jacuzzi because the 500 foot one doesn’t fit in their mansion.

          • MD

            “I dont know what you mean by “meeting a woman at her model” if its a
            matter of recognizing her model as an incomplete, inaccurate view, then
            sure I can “meet that” if it means being dishonest and drawing some kind
            of equivalence of experiences then it’s simply untrue. And I’m not in
            the business of untruth, Marni may be, but I’m not.”

            Any woman you meet is going to see, think and feel about the world in certain ways. That’s her “model of the world”. The issue is not truth or inaccuracies. The issue is how she sees, thinks and feels about the world. You do not need to share her beliefs or share how she sees the world. But if you want to influence a woman (or anyone for that matter) then you start by seeing things from their point of view. What’s important to them?

            “showing empathy for a hot girl in dating is like showing empathy for a
            millionaire that’s had to settle for the 300 cubic feet jacuzzi because
            the 500 foot one doesn’t fit in their mansion.”

            Maybe. But it’s still important to see the world from the point of view of the hot girl. And I do not mean making a guess about that hot girl. I mean getting to know her and being genuinely curious about how things are in her world. Would you follow someone you do not trust? If you want her to follow your lead then she is going to need to trust you. And meeting her at her model of the world is a good way to help her trust you. Of course you do this in a genuine way with genuine curiosity and care for her as a person.

          • skw

            “You do not need to share her beliefs or share how she sees the world. But if you want to influence a woman (or anyone for that matter) then you start by seeing things from their point of view. What’s important to them?”

            Isn’t that manipulative? The issue is accuracy and completeness. if a hot woman that gets approached 200 times a day and 500 emails a day contends that her and I have it “equally hard” because it’s part of her “model of the world” it’s inaccurate. period. plain and simple.

            I notice in your post you’re continually placing the responsibility of taking that first step in anything, whether it be approaching or empathizing, or “seeing her model” or whatever, on the man. And you continually justify that by saying, “well if you want to influence her…”

            which is fine, if you believe men have to take this action because thats what men have to do, then fine, but don’t obfuscate the issue of difficulty by saying it’s not harder, or saying “whether its easier or harder isn’t the issue” that’s the topic of the thread. I can go around saying, “despite the topic of the thread being easier vs harder, it’s truly about blue chickens” but it wouldn’t make too much sense – now would it.

            If women want to connect with men, then they should realize it’s 100x harder for men in the dating space. yes, if you’re a woman in afghanistan that could be decapitated for refusing a marriage proposal, it’s harder for women – but in a western society the pendulum has swung completely 180 the other way.

            ” I mean getting to know her and being genuinely curious about how things are in her world.”

            And because women want this from us, before giving us anything in return, they want us to take the risk, therefore, it’s harder.

          • MD

            “Isn’t that manipulative?”

            Yes, it can be manipulative. It can be manipulative because it’s a powerful way of gaining rapport with someone. If you’re intent is to use that powerful rapport builder to get someone to do something they do not want to do/something that’s not in their best interests then yes, it’s manipulative. But if your intent is good then you’re simply learning to communicate with women and with other people in a powerful way.

            “The issue is accuracy and completeness. if a
            hot woman that gets approached 200 times a day and 500 emails a day
            contends that her and I have it “equally hard” because it’s part of her
            “model of the world” it’s inaccurate. period. plain and simple.”

            It’s inaccurate to you. Not to her. That’s the difference. She sees things one way and you see them another. Discovering how she sees the world doesn’t stop you from seeing the world in a certain way. See things from her point of view.

            “I notice in your post you’re continually placing the responsibility of
            taking that first step in anything, whether it be approaching or
            empathizing, or “seeing her model” or whatever, on the man. And you
            continually justify that by saying, “well if you want to influence
            her…”

            Yes, if you want to influence her then you’re going to need to see things from her point of view. You’re the one who wants her. This is not about whether you’re a man or a woman. You want her. You want to influence her. She has no idea you exist so how is she gonna take that first step? If you want her then you take that first step. She doesn’t know you exist.

            “which is fine, if you believe men have to take this action because thats
            what men have to do, then fine, but don’t obfuscate the issue of
            difficulty by saying it’s not harder, or saying “whether its easier or
            harder isn’t the issue” that’s the topic of the thread. I can go around
            saying, “despite the topic of the thread being easier vs harder, it’s
            truly about blue chickens” but it wouldn’t make too much sense – now
            would it.”

            It’s not about men having to do anything. You want a woman. She has no idea you are even alive. She can’t make the first move. You want her. you go get her.

            “If women want to connect with men, then they should realize it’s 100x
            harder for men in the dating space. yes, if you’re a woman in
            afghanistan that could be decapitated for refusing a marriage proposal,
            it’s harder for women – but in a western society the pendulum has swung
            completely 180 the other way.”

            Again, this comes down to perspective. Nobody is ever going to win the who has things more unfair game. If you argue for the limitations and disadvantages you think you have then they grow in power. If we must compare ourselves to each other, start focusing on what advantages you have. What can you do to improve your dating life? Why would a woman want to date you instead of some other guy?

            “And because women want this from us, before giving us anything in return, they want us to take the risk, therefore, it’s harder.”

            It’s not about getting something from someone. It’s about connecting with someone. A person is not there to give you something. They have no idea who you are. If you want to connect with someone then you make the first move. Women don’t necessarily want or expect you to connect with them. But if you want to connect with a woman then you can take the first step. Asking her to do it or expecting her to do it when she has no idea you are even alive is illogical.

          • skw

            “It’s inaccurate to you. Not to her. That’s the difference. She sees things one way and you see them another. Discovering how she sees the world doesn’t stop you from seeing the world in a certain way. See things from her point of view.”

            No, if I hold up a spoon and say “this is a spoon” then thats something that holds true for both of us. its an unbiased fact.

            Same is true here. if a physically attractive woman gets approached and receives interest continuously, then it’s clearly a superior position, or “easier” than having to go up to people and state your interest.

            That’s an indisputable, unbiased fact. It’s not interpretation, it’s not a model or a view or a perception. We have to agree on some kind of agreed basis of fact do we not, otherwise people can just make up whatever they please about whatever they want

            ” It’s about connecting with someone. A person is not there to give you something. They have no idea who you are. If you want to connect with someone then you make the first move.”

            Yes, and same holds true for women, does it not? women supposedly want to “connect” with many people, but they rarely if ever make the first move. Im talking about the cases where women WANT to connect with someone and just sit there and wait to be approached. Not only that, most women I know are not interested in the least in my “model of the world”

            Isn’t that completely illogical based on your own statements?

          • MD

            “No, if I hold up a spoon and say “this is a spoon” then thats something that holds true for both of us. its an unbiased fact.”

            Yes, a spoon is a spoon. That’s a fact. But we’re not talking about facts. We’re talking about a person’s model of the world which is informed largely by subjective interpretation of the world.

            “Same is true here. if a physically attractive woman gets approached and
            receives interest continuously, then it’s clearly a superior position,
            or “easier” than having to go up to people and state your interest.”

            Maybe, But that relies on the assumption that the woman does get approached and does receive interest in the way you describe. Which is something you cannot know for sure.

            “That’s an indisputable, unbiased fact. It’s not interpretation, it’s not
            a model or a view or a perception. We have to agree on some kind of
            agreed basis of fact do we not, otherwise people can just make up
            whatever they please about whatever they want”

            A person’s model of the world is a subjective interpretation of the world. It’s not about agreeing on facts. It’s about seeing the world from their point of view.

            “Yes, and same holds true for women, does it not? women supposedly
            want to “connect” with many people, but they rarely if ever make the
            first move. Im talking about the cases where women WANT to connect with someone and just sit there and wait to be approached. Not only that,
            most women I know are not interested in the least in my “model of the
            world”"

            Yes, societal pressures make it difficult for women to make the first move when it comes to connecting with men. And, if a woman has no idea you exist then she’s not going to want to connect with your model of the world. But if you show interest in how she sees the world then she might show interest in how you see the world.

            If you know a woman, relate to her by seeing things from her point of view. That is an invitation to see things from your point of view.

          • skw

            “We’re talking about a person’s model of the world which is informed largely by subjective interpretation of the world.”

            Please tell me, in what person’s warped model of the world is going out, repeatedly risking failure, approaching over and over again easier ?

            Sitting back and waiting for things to come to you is EASIER, absolutely, irrespective of the observer. This isn’t a model, this isn’t perspective or perception, it’s truth. Find me ONE woman on the planet that actually believes she’d have an EASIER time if she were in a man’s shoes and had to go out and approach women.

            Before going on and on about points of view, go out and find one woman that conforms to the principle I stated above.

    • Urusigh

      You betray your own point. (Most) Men can’t see that. You are attempting to explain color to people who see in monochrome and then blaming them for the failing. We fail miserably when we ask ourselves “what is she feeling” because we are not women, men do not process feelings the same way. Now, if when we asked, “Honey, what’s wrong?” we got an answer that isn’t “You should KNOW!”, there might actually be a productive exchange of information involved. If you say “the colors in this room are too cold, please paint it x” I will have no idea how colors can be “cold” but I know exactly how to repaint a room and have no problem doing so. If you just say “this room is too cold” I am going to bring you a jacket or turn up the heat and then wonder why you aren’t thankful. Is this really so hard?

  • Ricardo

    holy crap i just posted a long ass message twice and didn’t work. arrgh! took forever to remember what the hell i wrote. is this thing working???

    • Parkey

      Well I you speak a lot of sense. Less is more though, and try writing in paragraphs. At the moment I can guarantee practically nobody is reading because a huge block of text is all but impenetrable.

      Shame, because I think you make some good points.

  • Carolina Girl

    After reading 75% of these comments written by men, it’s very clear why Marni now has an extememly successful business! Wow – what a total misunderstanding! Hear now from a woman!

    First off – Ding, you seem to have had some very negative experiences with women. Could be your picker (or change that to an “e” – just sayin!)

    I am a successful career Mom who divorced 2.5 yrs ago – and not from my choosing! My husband had an affair and left our 15 yr marriage and married 2 weeks after our divorce. Now, I know you’re thinking – “bet you’re bitter! Bet you think all men will cheat on you” – NOT so! I realize that my ex had issues and that EVERY person is different. I do not blame the male species for what happened and actually have forgiven my ex and hope to one day find a true love again. Lord knows I have tried!! I hear on these posts – over & over – that all women use men, all women play games, all women have it easy…come on guys! Really? We’re all different.
    Because I am busy with my career & children, meeting guys organically doesn’t seem to happen. So I have been doing the online dating thing on & off for over 2 yrs. I am an attractive, healthy woman who get’s plenty of winks and frankly, dates too! I am always open to those with similar interests and put very little stock in someones appearance. What you say is always way more important – but similar lifestyles is a must! I like to workout 4-5/week and I’m educated – so someone has to start there with some basics.
    My challenge has been the lying game from men! Hence my reason for posting! I wish that the match site would have levels – like “Just in it for a sex,” “Checking out my prospects and just getting started – not ready for commitment,” or “I’m ready to explore a long term relationship.” My success record with getting the date, and even having several multiple month relationships has been that they are not ready – or they get scared & run. I mean literally run! I’ve on more than one occasion had a guy just begin to ignore texts and pull away without communicating what the issues are. Strange. But again, I charge on! I don’t believe all men are the same and I’m beginning to build quite the possie of great guy friends – with even a handful of FWB’s so when a girl needs to fulfill a physical need, there are options without picking out the drunk loser at the end of the bar on a friday night!
    Guys have issues with openly explaining where they are. Maybe because (after reading all your replies) they have rejection fears. Maybe I do too! And for very good reason, but I will never stop putting myself out there because my Mr. Wonderful is out there…I just haven’t met him yet. Best of luck fellows!

    • Ding Chavez

      @Carolina Girl.
      .
      Thanks for the thought out reply.
      .
      No, I don’t have a problem with my Picker and my pecker is doing okay too (knock on wood), but I want to improve things before I get too old and start needing pills or whatever. Wait, are you some kind of pharmaceutical rep?
      .
      I have had SOME negative experiences. Mostly with women I actually wanted to date. If I could have the building inspector condemn the FriendZone, I would be so happy. If I’m remotely attracted to a woman, she’s trying to stick me in that bastard. I wish there was some kind of crime I could commit in the friend zone to get me extradited to the Sex Only zone.
      .
      Do I really sound all that angry to you guys?
      .
      I’m just tired of the games and the situation being stacked against me. Even in Vegas, you can win sometimes.
      .
      Some men do have problems explaining where they are because they don’t know where YOU are. If they say they just want sex (and if they aren’t rich or a movie star) you might send them packing. If they say they want a relationship (and they aren’t rich or a movie star) you might send them packing. Being sent packing has absolutely NO upside.
      .
      I don’t know how important similar lifestyles are. I know there are no women I find remotely attractive doing any of the things I enjoy.
      .
      Best of luck on your search. Remember to give the good guys a chance too.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Carolina,
      Great to get another woman’s perspective. I love that you haven’t let past experience stop you from going out there and trying again. You deserve to find the man of your dreams (but I’d expect commitment from someone who gets themselves to the gym that many times a week ;) )
      Marni :)

    • skw

      “After reading 75% of these comments written by men, it’s very clear why
      Marni now has an extememly successful business! Wow – what a total
      misunderstanding! Hear now from a woman!”

      There are two businesses that are guaranteed successes in this world. Selling dating advice to men, and selling weight-loss advice to women. Men and women are both so desperate to find the “magic bullet” to these respective topics, they’ll spend inordinate amount of time and money to do so.

      “But again, I charge on”

      You’ve proven my point beautifully. Yes, the “dating world” is difficult for you, but compare your experience to someone who is say in their late 20s or early 30s that hasn’t had a SINGLE relationship, no girlfriend ever, because they’ve just been too scared to meet the societal expectation to approach and initiate, Lady you’re sittin’ pretty compared to some of us guys.

      But here’s my question, how do I become a FWB ? You seem actually like a real cool chick, and definitely similar to someone who I’d want to FWB with.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

        and not only that, men have to approach and initiate, pursue the right way, we can’t just do it any way

    • skw

      Another thing to add, I think by reading the female responses here, it’s pretty clear that women in general don’t have a #)$@(#ing clue how to advise men around them (whether they be strangers or ‘friends’) about how to win women.

      Marni even states that in some of her posts, problem is, she knows just a smidge more. she’s just a fantasmagoric marketer. In all honesty she’s not a coach or therapist or whatever, rather a very successful internet marketer.

      • MD

        Not all women and not all men know what they are attracted to and respond to. But, if you want to “win women” then talking to them, listening to them and connecting with them makes a lot more sense than just talking about women with a bunch of guys. It makes sense to talk to women about women. Not because every woman knows how you can win every woman. But because talking to women is the whole point. If you don’t get used to talking to and connecting with women then things are going to be a hard slog.

        If you’re going to say all these things about Marni then can I respectfully ask which bits of her advice you have taken and applied in the real world? What results have you had from applying Marni’s advice in your interactions with women? You claim Marni has only a smidge more of a clue about advising men how to win women. Well, what evidence are you basing that assertion on? Which women have you talked to using Marni’s advice? How did they respond to you?

        I’m not Mr Amazing with women. And I understand the frustration of trying many new things and not getting the results you hoped for. It is easy to feel frustrated when nothing you do seems to make a difference. That said, I am willing to try and develop. Some of what Marni says won’t work for me. I’m my own man. But some of what she advises will work and the free content on this website is evidence that Marni has done her best to meet men at their map of the world and show them how they can develop their skills with women.

        Of course, many factors are involved and we only ever have influence over others not control. But if we could control people then we’d never know if they wanted to be with us. If you haven’t already, try out some of her advice and see what happens. If it doesn’t work, fair enough.

    • Urusigh

      For the record, most men don’t know “where they are” in a relationship. Society says that’s completely up to the woman.We have to ask permission repeatedly at each milestone because if we push too fast “you’re just a horndog” and if we never push “we’re over, you just don’t make me feel like a woman”. Is it any wonder we don’t want to guess? A wrong answer nearly always means a breakup. Good suggestion for match though.

    • kofybean

      Stopped reading after “male species”

  • Ding Chavez

    @Marni

    Thanks. I hope I don’t come off too harsh.

    .

    You do have to admit some of the barricades women throw out don’t make any sense. Especially if you’re serious about meeting someone.

    .

    I can only offer what I have. I can’t offer oranges when all I have are apples.

    .
    Would be nice to be accepted for what I actually have to offer.

  • Guest

    i think that women have it easier than men when it comes to dating. the dating part is the easiest part!! pick a place, meet there, have a conversation and then the guy picks up the tab.
    its the relationship part that is so hard for me. i do have a list that a man must meet in order for me to be interested. once i’m interested, i’m immediately becoming emotionally attached. men can get up, leave and move on with his life while it takes me a while to mourn and adjust to being single (again).
    i’m very cynical… in the beginning, i wonder why is this man with me? is he trying to score?
    i know that men are visual, they want what they can see while i want an intellectual and nurturing relationship but in order for me to get that, i need to do the deed between the sheets… its very discouraging to date men my age!!
    i would love to find a guy who can treat me like a lady, have an interesting conversation, be affectionate and thoughtful and make my heart race when the lights go down.

    • Urusigh

      I question that it is easier for most guys when a breakup happens. The fact that we hide our feelings just means that we have less support available to us to deal with the pain. Women may feel things deeper, but they also recover quicker. The few guys who blow through women like tissue paper shouldn’t be given any more weight than women who do the same to men. Most guys really do want much more, we just get few chances at it because women are so fast to cut us loose at the first hint of imperfection.

  • http://www.facebook.com/svalko2003 Stephanie Valko Nolan

    women definitely have it easier to date than men. the dating part is the easiest part!! choose a spot, meet there, have a conversation and the man picks up the tab. no brainer!

    its the relationship part that is the hardest part for me. i do have a mental list that a man must meet in order for me to be interested. however once i’m interested, i’m immediately becoming emotionally invested. men are visual while women are attuned to her feelings. unfortunately, its the nature of the beast…

    so i’d love to find a man who can treat me like a lady, have an intellectual conversation, be affectionate, thoughtful and make my heart race when the lights go down.

    but i’m very cynical. if i do go on a date, i often wonder, when was the last time this guy had an intimate relationship? why did that relationship end? what’s he doing with me? is he looking to score? of course i don’t say any of these things but they are all on my mind. during the date, i pay attention to the small details and on the guy’s behavior while he’s with me. so yeah its tough on the guy but even tougher on the woman cuz’ she’s got to figure out if this guy is worth pursuing…

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Steph,
      You’re right that it’s not always so black and white. Dating can be a pretty ruthless game and a lot of women rely on ‘barricades’ because they are seeing signs from the new guy that the last guy that let them down put out as well. Remember, the best way out is always through, we have to fail to ultimately succeed.
      Marni :)

    • skw

      “its the relationship part that is the hardest part for me.”

      Hello – relationships are hard for everyone.

      “so yeah its tough on the guy but even tougher on the woman cuz’ she’s got to figure out if this guy is worth pursuing…”

      how is it ‘even tougher’ ?? a guy has to figure out if this woman will f*ck him over also. Both sides are always thinking “is this worth pursuing”

      but kudos to you for at least admitting that men have it harder in the dating process.

      • MD

        “Hello – relationships are hard for everyone.”

        If you want your “it’s harder for me/men” stuff to be respected then surely it makes sense to show empathy towards women and their problems? You would get very angry and cross if someone had responded to one of your posts with: “hello-relationships are hard for everyone”. Dismissing other people’s problems whilst demanding that your problems are respected and understood is a logical nonsense.

        • skw

          ” Dismissing other people’s problems whilst demanding that your problems are respected and understood is a logical nonsense.”

          You just described the majority of women in the world, take this message to them.

          Women’s problems in relationships are well-documented, well-expressed, and continually harped upon (just watch any episode of Oprah, invariably it’s the man’s “fault”)

          Saying “relationships are hard for everyone” is not dismissing anything, it’s saying exactly what it says: that relationships are hard

          I show empathy when empathy is shown for me. And the first part of that is acknowledging the obvious fact that men clearly have a more difficult task in a dating context.

          • MD

            “Women’s problems in relationships are well-documented, well-expressed, and continually harped upon (just watch any episode of Oprah, invariably it’s the man’s “fault”)”

            Indeed they are well documented. And men’s problems in relationships are becoming more and more documented too. Go to your local newsagents and you have your pick of magazines for men full of “advice” about dating, relationships, how to attract women etc. Perhaps not to the degree that you see the same thing in women’s magazines but one has to remember that men were not encouraged to talk openly about their problems and issues for a long time. One element of societal pressure that did impact on men and if you talk about this with women, many relate and many agree with you.

            “Saying “relationships are hard for everyone” is not dismissing anything,
            it’s saying exactly what it says: that relationships are hard.”

            Indeed, but care needs to be taken when saying it. If it is said in the wrong tone then it could come across as dismissing other people’s problems outright. Not a good rapport building strategy.

            “I show empathy when empathy is shown for me. And the first part of that
            is acknowledging the obvious fact that men clearly have a more difficult
            task in a dating context.”

            I appreciate that. And if a woman you like the look of has a similar attitude (i.e she will not show empathy until empathy is shown to her), you’re probably going to have a hard time connecting with her. Does she really need to acknowledge something you believe to be a fact before you’ll show her empathy? She is an individual person with her own experiences, views, beliefs etc. You want to connect with her, have good rapport, lead her, maybe sleep with her/date her etc. Would it not make sense to show her empathy and, in so doing, show her that you understand where she is at in the world? You don’t need to believe what she believes to do that. Just be genuinely curious about her.

            That might work for you or it might not. I don’t know. I don’t know what things are like for you just as you don’t know what things are like for a woman you’re interested in. Despite it being the topic of this thread, the issue is not who has it easier. The issue is what has to happen for you to improve your current situation with regard to your love life. Because we only have power over what we do.

          • skw

            “And men’s problems in relationships are becoming more and more documented too. Go to your local newsagents and you have your pick of magazines for men full of “advice” about dating, ”

            The “problems” for men are seen as problems WITH men. all that advice (including the advice thats available here) is about how men should be more like “men”

            The problems for women are about how society is rigged against women, and women have it completely unfair. It’s not a call for women to change and become different, rather its a call for society to change.

            See the difference?

            “Indeed, but care needs to be taken when saying it. If it is said in the wrong tone then it could come across as dismissing other people’s problems outright.”

            How are you discerning tone from a written sentence. Any tone you are attaching yourself.

            “Does she really need to acknowledge something you believe to be a fact before you’ll show her empathy?”

            If that empathy is to be long lasting then yes. In my view, women need to be more aware of the problems men face in general. there is nearly not enough of this in our society.

            “The issue is what has to happen for you to improve your current situation with regard to your love life. Because we only have power over what we do.”

            And that doesn’t include denying facts, does it? If Im showing empathy just to get what I want from her (and if in doing so I am denying my own factual experiences) then it’s not a meaningful show of empathy – now is it?

          • MD

            “The “problems” for men are seen as problems WITH men. all that advice
            (including the advice thats available here) is about how men should be
            more like “men”. The problems for women are about how society is rigged against women,and women have it completely unfair. It’s not a call for women to change and become different, rather its a call for society to change. See the difference?”

            I almost completely agree with you as there is an element of what you describe present within dating advice. And it’s also a far more complicated picture. There’s an entire book out there dedicated to telling women off for not calling the guy back after 3 dates, no following a set of “rules”, “not being feminine enough”, “not being able to read men enough”.

            A huge chunk of dating advice attacks women: “you’re not thin enough”, “why can’t you find a man?”, “why are you still single”? We even have a difference in words when we describe single women compared to how we describe single men: “spinster” vs “bachelor”. Dating advice attacks women for not following an ideal just as much as it can attack men for not following an ideal.

            So much of dating advice does call for women to change. It asks them to loose weight, dress differently, act differently, follow new sets of rules.

            “How are you discerning tone from a written sentence. Any tone you are attaching yourself.”

            Firstly, I’m not discerning tone from a written sentence. But if I were, I’d be doing it the same way any other person would. All of us read written sentences and attribute certain tones to them. That’s why my point about being careful about what we say and how it comes across is well made.

            “If that empathy is to be long lasting then yes. In my view, women need
            to be more aware of the problems men face in general. there is nearly
            not enough of this in our society.”

            And what makes you think that women are not aware of the problems men face in general? After all, men have wives, girlfriends, sisters, mothers, female friends. Women interact with men. Surely all that interacting would, by now, have given women some idea about the problems men experience?

            “And that doesn’t include denying facts, does it? If Im showing empathy
            just to get what I want from her (and if in doing so I am denying my own
            factual experiences) then it’s not a meaningful show of empathy – now
            is it?”

            I agree with you. No, it’s not. And the issue is why you’d be doing that in the first place? Why show empathy just to get what you want from her and deny your own factual experiences in the process?

            Showing empathy to another person does not dismiss or deny any experiences in your past. It’s not about getting what you want from her. You’re a genuine guy looking for sex/relationship with another person not some dodgy salesman looking to get some money out of her. You show empathy for her because you see her as an individual person you genuinely want to get to know.

          • skw

            “Showing empathy to another person does not dismiss or deny any experiences in your past. It’s not about getting what you want from her. ”

            if empathy is “ok I understand your misinformed position, but you’re not familiar with the full facts” then yes empathy is certainly showable. Here’s an example, I once had a woman say “if I could be born again, Id want to come back as a man, it’s so easy” There is no way I could empathize with this position, because it’s horribly false. How many times did she wish she was a man when she was getting approached all night long? or guys buying her drinks and dinners? or getting into clubs with zero wait time or zero cover?

          • MD

            “if empathy is “ok I understand your misinformed position, but you’re not
            familiar with the full facts” then yes empathy is certainly showable.”

            That’s not empathy. That’s a defense of a particular belief system. How do you know their position is misinformed? How do you know what facts they are and are not familiar with? We all tend to want to defend our beliefs but defending our own beliefs and our belief that our beliefs are right is not empathy.

            ” Here’s an example, I once had a woman say “if I could be born again, Id
            want to come back as a man, it’s so easy” There is no way I could
            empathize with this position, because it’s horribly false.”

            It is your belief that it is false. It’s not a truth of the universe that it’s false. It’s certainly true that men don’t experience the pain of childbirth. We don’t tend to have people looking down our tops instead of speaking to our faces. We’ve only recently had to put up with the mass media screaming: “don’t look like this then you’re fat!” through adverts etc. We tend to be physically stronger which tends to give us an advantage when out on our own. We don’t have to put with angry Men’s Rights lunatics trolling us on dating websites. It’s certainly possible to see things from the position of the woman you speak of.

            “How many times did she wish she was a man when she was getting approached all night long? or guys buying her drinks and dinners? or getting into clubs with zero wait time or zero cover?”

            So you know for sure she was getting approached all night long? You know for sure guys were buying her dinners/drinks? You know for sure she was getting into clubs with zero wait time or zero cover? Was she a celebrity or something? I’ve heard of some clubs letting women in for free to encourage men to pay to get in. But not every woman is approached all night long, not every woman is getting in free to clubs and not every woman is getting bought drinks and dinners all the time.

          • kofybean

            Well, he is right. This article is about dating, not relationships. Relationships are hard for everyone but you have to date to even get a relationship. It is not easy to hear women harp on how hard relationships are when many men are being looked over for a simple date.

    • Wesley

      Oh really Stephanie? Guess what a guy is thinking the same thing and wondering way more. If you feel it is a mission for all those things he has to meet, it will be 10 times harder for him when he accepts it. Again, all you have to is sit back and judge. Women like you wouldn’t be worthy of my company. Like Eddie Murphy said…” But what have you done for me lately?”

  • Kate

    Wow I can’t believe how many guys think us women have it easier. Unbelievable. Did you not read Marni’s article that we all have the same problems when finding someone or approaching the other gender? Also, to the person who said “a woman’s hobby is talking” ?? I know a lot of women who prefer to listen than talk and are intersted and involved in many hobbies. Perhaps many of you really do need to get out more and talk to women because you do not know us very well. We are pressured everyday by how we are supposed to look or act.

    In the end it isn’t whether who has it easier when it comes to finding someone or dating– but rather which one has made the most presumptions. It seems men have made many presumptions about what women want, what we do, why we do it; and then we are all put in the same category. We all want the same thing and as shown above we all have similar weaknesses when it comes to dating.

    As for the person who said he knows there are women out there who count how many men they can reject– you should not be worrying about them, they are not worth a thought. That’s an awful thing for them to do and please don’t stereotype us all in that way and then say we have it easier.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Kate,
      It is so great to have some other women writing on here, giving guys some insight into what we’re thinking.
      It’s easy to forget that when we are dating, we are dating people not our expectations, and people are complicated!
      Games are a way to start to get to know someone not a replacement for true understanding.
      Marni :)

    • http://twitter.com/DrewDees06 Andrew West

      you don’t have to initiate anything

    • MM

      You’re ignorant Kate.

      You have NO IDEA of how difficult it is for men. Women have it so damn easy. I would LOVE to be a woman because then my life would be extremely easy. I wouldn’t have to do anything to get sex or get a boyfriend. Women can get away with being fat, ugly, boring, nasty and genuinely horrible human beings – and yet they can still find a man who’s either willing to sleep with her or be her boyfriend.

      And yes, women’s hobby is to talk about men. Women talk A LOT more about men than vice versa. Men actually have interesting topics to talk about such as politics, literature, society, culture and much more. Women’s conversations are mostly about sex and men.

      And that also proves that most women have NO respect for men. They tell their friend about their’s boyfriend’s penis size, how he is in bed and other extremely private stuff. It’s ironic that women claim that trust is one of the most important things in a relationship, when they betray their boyfriend’s/husband’s trust ALL THE TIME.

      No man in this world can trust his woman. She has betrayed your trust, and if she hasn’t then she will.

      Women are shallower than men. A lot shallower in fact. You’re doomed if you’re a short man. Forget about ever getting a girlfriend or
      getting married. And sex if completely out of the question, unless
      you’re willing to pay for it.

      A fat woman can lose weight, but a short man can’t grow taller. I know that this is impossible for most women to understand, but any intelligent woman should be able to understand it. This also proves that women are shallower than men.

      The most important things for women when they’re
      looking for a man are these: height (being tall), looks, muscular body,
      big penis and money/status. The vast majority of women couldn’t care
      less about a man’s personality. Personality is one of the least
      important things.

      It’s annoys me that Marni is making money just from giving men false hope. By setting them up to fail. Those men think that she can actually help them, when she’s actually not helping them at all. Women care about looks. They don’t care about
      personality.

      99.9% of all women believe that height is more important than a man’s personality. NOBODY can deny this.

      • Marni Wing Girl

        I’m sorry, I find it hard to listen to someone preach about women’s lack of respect for men after just stating that they have no ability or interest in discussing politics, literature, society or culture. You’re getting very angry about women’s attitudes towards height but as far as I can see you don’t seem to regard them as adult beings. I’m really not meaning to sound harsh but I think perhaps past experiences with certain women is leading you to type cast them all.
        Marni :)

    • skw

      “Wow I can’t believe how many guys think us women have it easier.”

      of course you can’t because you are only able to look at things through your own lens, you have 0 ability to look at the world through someone else’s eyes (yet you likely want all men to look at the world through yours)

      “Did you not read Marni’s article that we all have the same problems when finding someone or approaching the other gender?”

      In this particular context, Marni doesn’t know what she’s talking about, see the point above. She has good intentions, just a big ego that prevents her from learning from others. Of course everyone has the same problems approaching or finding someone. That’s obvious. The issue here is social expectation. No one would ever say “Be a woman! go approach that guy!” See the difference now? is it starting to become clearer?

      “In the end it isn’t whether who has it easier when it comes to finding
      someone or dating– but rather which one has made the most presumptions.”

      Umm, yes it is, thats the question that was posed in the thread. Who has it easier.

      “It seems men have made many presumptions about what women want, what we
      do, why we do it; and then we are all put in the same category. We all
      want the same thing and as shown above we all have similar weaknesses
      when it comes to dating.”

      The point here is expectation from society, not what individual problems people have within themselves. A guy who is scared to approach has his VERY MANHOOD questioned on a constant basis “Be a man!” “Get some balls!” “Grow a pair!”

      A woman who is afraid to approach (as most are) can proudly shout out, “I want a man to chase me!”

      This isn’t a stereotype, it’s cold hard facts. Answer me this question:

      If you had a choice to either be socially expected to go out and do something, rather than have that something come to you. would you do it?

    • Urusigh

      “We are pressured everyday by how we are supposed to look or act.”

      By whom? I sincerely doubt that it is a man telling you what to wear, how to fix your makeup, and that you must sit quietly in the corner and only smile shyly until whichever guy out of the whole room you might actually like spontaneously starts reading minds and learns that you want him to… fulfill an entire list of requirements that you won’t tell him in advance. It isn’t the men’s magazines telling you to be 20lb underweight, to scorch your skin all winter to maintain a tan, to wear whatever fashion is big in Paris this season. I firmly believe that in general, life is easier as a man, but that wasn’t the question asked. Men ask very little of a prospective date beyond that she show up, express interest in a way that he can notice and at least not look like a jerk or idiot for making an approach, be upfront and clear about what you actually want from us, and… nope, that’s about it. If you are having a much harder time than that, you might want to pay closer attention to which direction all that pressure is actually coming from.

      Seriously, you could just spend a day wearing a t-shirt that says “looking for a nice guy to date” and you would almost certainly be flooded with applications from men trying to be on their best behavior. A guy wearing a “looking for a girlfriend” shirt would just look “needy” or “desperate” and be utterly shunned by the female gender. Tell me I’m wrong (if you honestly can, I’ll start a business to sell those shirts and be able to retire in a year).

  • Mickey

    Women DO have to:
    1) Look cute.

    Women DO NOT have to:
    1) Work up courage to ask men out.
    2) Pay for most of the dates (if any).
    3) Make a first move.
    4) Lead conversations.
    5) Take almost any social or physical initiative at all.
    6) Have an interesting life.

    In essence, women can be lazy, wimpy, and boring, but men have to be motivated, confident, and interesting.

    I think that women who complain that they can’t get men should probably try and be more like the kind of man they would want. If a lazy, wimpy, boring girl meets a fascinating, driven, self-assured man… why would he want her?

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Mickey,
      I think that the idea that all women have to do in dating is look cute is only true if you view it that way.
      If the guy she is with cares about having an interesting, kind and confident woman then she has to worry about those qualities too!
      Marni :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      you nailed it there

    • edgar

      i like your anwser!!!

  • skw

    I know this doesn’t relate to dating directly, but LIFE in general is easy for women, especially attractive women. This picture says it all:

    http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5619170_700b.jpg

    Not to marginalize the death/suicide of a young girl, but who knows the guys name on the right? How much outpouring and facebook pages and tweets came out for him? Exactly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

    the way i see and view it, it’s like as if women are entitled, owed dating and relationships, sex, but men are never entitled, owed anything in life, women, etc.

    These are my arguments as to why I think women have it easier, since men have to do the approaching, initiating, pursuing, asking out, starting conversations, small-talk, overall, initiate just about everything, social-skills, conversation-skills are far more important for men to have than they are for women to have, the odds are much more in a socially-inept, socially-awkward woman’s favor to land a date, a relationship, sex, than the other way around, vice-versa.

    I found this from Ron Louis and David Copeland, who wrote the book “how to succeed with women”, i edited it with some posts of mine to show all the work we men have to do in order to make ourselves attractive, desirable to women, but what women don’t have to do:

    “Basically, it is okay for girls to get validation from guys but not the other way around. We guys have to find ways to
    be comfortable, content, and be in love with our own life, we have to get our
    validation from life, and have things we are up to in our life be validating
    us. Success with women, girls and success in life are similiar. Just as girls,
    women won’t go out of their way to bring guys dating, relationship, love
    success, or sexual success, life does not go out if it’s way to bringing
    anyone life success. Just as a guy’s love life, dating and relationship life is
    his chore, burden, responsibility, to make it the way he wants it, a person’s
    life as a whole is their responsibility to make it the way they want it. If we
    guys want to be successful with girls, women, it makes sense for us to have
    long-term goals for our lives that inspire us and that we are moving toward, no
    matter how slowly. If we guys do this, we’ll get our validation from life
    rather than girls, women.

    For example, let’s say there is a guy who is a Video-Game Designer for a Large
    Company, it was easy for him to allow his life to get into a rut. Day after Day
    he’d go to work, design, program, come home, watch TV, and go to Bed. He had no
    goals, no direction. He became passive with his life and, not surprisingly,
    with women, girls. He blamed his company for his lack of employment of his job,
    and blamed women for his lack of a love, relationship, dating, sex life. His
    future looked like it would be just his past. He looked to women for validation
    in his life, because he couldn’t find it anywhere else, and when they didn’t
    validate him, he became depressed. Thus the cycle got worse: The more depressed
    he became, the more he wanted women to make him feel validated, and
    predictably, the less attractive he became. The less attractive he became, the
    fewer women validated him and the more depresed he got.

    This was the state he was in when he came into when he was seeking advice,
    complaining about his lack of success with girls, women. The advice he was
    given was that he has to set goals for his life. He was told he had to go to a
    local bookstore and get a book on goal-setting, and got him to really look at
    what he wanted his life to be like in 10 years, five years, one year. He also
    was told to write down goals that inspired him, and to put them into his date
    book where he’d see them often. As he began to get excited about what was
    possible for him in his life, the cycle began to break apart. He started
    getting his validation from his life, rather than girls, women.

    This made him more attractive to women. Rather than wanting to have a
    girlfriend so he could have a life, he began having a life that validated him,
    whether girls, women were in it or not. Naturally, women, girls, were intrigued
    by his passion for his life, and wanted to be a part of it. He also had to make
    more male friends, guys have to be extroverts, if they have little or no
    friends, not the life of the party, not the loud popular talkative type, they
    are screwed, if a girl is that way, introverted, she won’t be screwed.

    Because his male friendships were able to validate him without putting down his
    sexuality or showing him that he was undesirable. He found he could get a kind
    of support from men, guys, he could never get from women he desired who
    insisted on being just “friends”. This validated him and made
    women’s, girl’s reactions to his approach less disturbing.

    Women, girls are attracted to guys, men who have passion and fire for their
    lives. They aren’t any more interested in prodiving guys, men, the validation
    for their lives than you are for theirs(that I disagree with, most guys, men,
    don’t care, we are proud to make women, girls feel happy, give them validation, don’t mind doing it). When a guy, man has
    goals, male friends, and a life that inspires him, he’ll be validated by what
    he is up to, and women, girls will want to be a part of his life.

    If a guy’s life is, boring, lonely and meaningless, that makes a guy look desperate,
    needy, clingy, insecure. A guy has to have something he is into, that gives his
    life meaning, above and beyond dating, relationships, love, sex. If a guy is
    trying to get meaning for his life out of interactions with girls, women, they
    will always notice it and reject him instantly, be repulsed by it. Guys too,
    won’t respect that guy.

    I understand, already know why girls, women are attracted to rich guys, because
    subconsciously, women, girls, want a provider for her and her potentially
    future kids, i don’t blame them for that, but girls, women, are attracted to
    guys, men who are successful in life and many of these guys, men, are not rich
    themselves, don’t have money, so it kinda makes it more frustrating.

    Here it is, girls, women, are attracted to, like successful guys. It is true
    they are attracted to money but that is not the whole story. They are attracted
    to guys who are passionate about their lives and have fire and drive. Some of
    these guys have money, some of them don’t. Money is less important than being a
    dynamic guy, man, tackling his life head-on. We’ve all seen the garage-band
    guitarists who are able to get dates and girlfriends, hook-ups, sex easily,
    eventhough they never play anywhere except but in local bars. Their passion for
    something in their lives makes both these kinds of guys, the guys with money
    and the guitarists, more attractive to girls, women.

    Along with passion, women, girls are very attracted to guys who have deep
    social connections. In essense, girls are attracted to guys who have
    social-status, which means a guy has plenty of friends, both guys and girls, is
    very outgoing, is frequently participating in social activities and is involved
    in several different social-circles.

    See all the work we guys have to do?

    Girls, Women, don’t have to do this.”

    Other arguments, people always say for every woman that has a boyfriend, the man has a girlfriend, they use that as a counter-argument for disagreeing on which gender has it easier in dating and relationships:

    “Who wants to date someone
    wallowing in self pity with this “girls have it easier” stuff? I mean
    honestly, if a Girl has a boyfriend, doesn’t THAT then imply that a guy had a
    girlfriend?”

    yeah well the man had to make the first move, start conversation, do the asking out, take charge, make things happen, how does that give a man power and control? there is a difference between being chosen and choosing you know, women have the final say, they just have to accept or decline, just approve of the date and the relationship, yes obviously women do not say no to guys they want, but still, you should get the point, does the job applicant, candidate have the power, authority to get himself/herself hired for the job? is it their decision on whether they get hired or not? you should get the point.

    More arguments “First of all women are approached by tons of men
    on a constant basis. So they look for a guy that sticks out who is different.
    Its not that women like bad boys its the fact they like the excitement that
    comes along with dating a guy who is different then the 20 different guys who
    hit on them daily.

    It boils down to options.

    Women want a guy who can keep them on their toes and keep them guessing. Their
    emotionally driven. Being bad has nothing to do with it. You can be the nicest
    guy in the world and still get her excited unfortunately it just so happens
    most nice guys are boring.

    Here are the specific reasons.

    1) there too conforming. They have no edge which makes them to predictable
    which is the biggest problem.

    2) they usually lack in saviness which leads to emotional boredom.
    Conversations are too dull and dry. Activities are too dull and dry.

    Picture your most boring subject you had to study in school. Now imagine
    sitting 3 hours through the class. Let’s say geography…actually thats pretty
    fun..ok let’s say…geomatry..actually thats pretty interesting too…ok
    whatever geomatry..

    Thats what women feel like when their with a nice guy. They won’t ever admit it
    but thats the truth. They can’t stand most nice guys.”

    Women don’t love Bad Boys
    per se. They love men who love life and are unapologetic about it. Women love
    rock musicians because they have fun. They love men with motorcycles because
    they’re fun. They love men who sense life’s possibilities because they’re fun.
    They love men who see every freaking day as a potential adventure because
    they’re fun. In other words, they love men who have some kind of guiding
    passion and aren’t terrified of their shadows. The aforementioned men who paint
    dungeons and dragons figurines on their Saturday nights are not fun.

    Women don’t love Bad Boys
    per se. They love men who are pretty direct, while still managing to be
    reasonably polite and gentlemanly. Yes, the two can indeed co-exist within the
    same person. They love men who don’t treat them like some goddess to be
    worshipped, a person to be handled with all the delicacy of a Ming vase. They love
    men who won’t put up with their crap. They love men who make their move, rather
    than create threads on CD asking on what date it’s okay to kiss a woman. They
    hate men who weigh their words so carefully that you’d think they were
    characters in a Henry James novel brought to life. They hate men who are such
    wimps that they won’t dance at a party and instead nurse a beer in the corner
    by the rhododendron, not talking to anyone. And they hate men with all the
    social skills of a rhesus monkey.

    Women don’t love bad boys
    per se. They love men who are comfortable in their own skin and confident with
    who they are. They don’t like men who are the opposite and whine. They despise
    men who apologize all the time for being men. And they loathe men who trot out
    elaborate theories to explain why they can’t get laid, rather than simply look
    in the mirror and ask, “Hey, would I do me?” The truth is that men
    like that can’t get laid because they are undesirable and are too lazy to
    change.

    you sound
    like a guy who needs affirmation and acceptance. Many girls sense that
    immediately and turns them off. Guys can sense that too and they get turned off
    with wanting to have you as one of their buddies. Desperation and lack of
    self-confidence are killers when you’re trying to connect with people no matter
    what you look like.

    Start doing things for you. Figure out what you want
    for your life. You seem confused on what it is that you want. Go hiking, scuba
    diving, go traveling, go canoeing, kayaking, fishing, bowling, rock climbing,
    anything you’ve ever wanted to do. You just might find a hobby. With hobbies
    comes friends with similar interests.

    .” You seem to be holding out for that one
    perfect woman to come along and turn your life around and make you a better
    person, truth is you need to turn yourself around and the women will follow.
    You need to make yourself a better person. What that route is, I cannot tell
    you, you’ll have to decide that for yourself.

    1. WOMEN should not be
    the main source of a Man’s happiness. It is everywhere, on the television, the
    radio, the books, and hell, even in a bodybuilding forum, where men act as if they
    are living their lives to fulfill the desires of women when it should be the
    other way around.

    You need to take a good look of yourself in front of a mirror. Ask yourself,
    what is it in this life that you want? Where do you want to be? What are the things
    you are doing to achieve your aspirations?

    You need to realize your dream and work on them. Your dream should not be
    related to acquiring women. A true man has dreams BIGGER than women!

    Realize that it is possible to die without ever having a woman at your side. So
    ask yourself, if you drop dead right now will you be content with what you have
    done with your life so far? Will you be happy? Usually, it is those who look
    for another person as a source of happiness are often the MOST unhappy people.
    You cannot control how other people feels about you. But you can control how
    you feel about yourself. And truly loving yourself is the ultimate gift.

    You are a Man. Stop crying over a woman. Start living your life and find your
    passion. And if you have already found your passion (fitness and going to
    med-school to become a doctor for me) then immerse yourself with the work it
    takes to ELEVATE what you do to an art form.

    When I didn’t have women I thought I was weird and could not wait until I
    finally got them. When I got women I realized I still was not content. I wanted
    to have sex. When I finally was getting laid, I realized it did not make me
    anymore unique or “alpha” than the other guys who are not in the same
    situation.

    I am not saying that working on your aspirations, living well, and being fit
    will get you girls. BUT it makes it EASIER to GET THEM AND KEEP THEM.

    The MISC. always laugh at this saying: LIVE. LAUGH. LOVE. BUT I argue that this
    is what you should be telling yourself constantly. LIVE first, make sure you
    have direction in life! LAUGH second, once your life has direction only then
    you can really begin to have fun and be happy when you wake up in the morning.
    LOVE is the last, because only when you are LIVING first and LAUGHING second then
    you are capable of finding true LOVE.

    So stop crying over women. The women should be the ones CRYING OVER YOU! Go be
    the Man that you are suppose to be! Action. Passion. Strength. This is MAN.
    Live your life for YOURSELF. FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS! At the end of the day, when
    you are laying on your bed alone at night, you realize that all you really have
    is yourself and the dreams you want to achieve.

    Show the world what you truly are, not what they think of you.

    OK, Stop dating. What do you love to do? What do you want to do that you are
    not? NOT something you think you can meet women at what are you passionate
    about? Sports? Politics? Feeding the Homeless? Church?

    Do it, work in a political campaign, volunteer at a food bank, coach a kid’s
    team, but it has to be something you love doing, or it won;t work.

    Then, just when you realize you do not miss dating, you will meet someone.

    By starting this thread (and the one about your appearance),
    you’re telling others that you’re insecure and not comfortable in your own
    skin. The best remedy in this situation is to work on yourself. This would
    involve better health/fitness/appearance (weight loss, lifting weights, better
    wardrobe, etc.). Career wise, think of what you can do to better yourself, be
    it trade school, internships, networking more aggressively, etc.

    The best advice I can give you is focus on yourself. Once you’re at your best
    or moving in the right direction, you’ll be more confident and more successful
    with the ladies than you are now.

    Best advice so far. If you’re into what you’re doing and love
    yourself, you won’t really care what other people think. Not saying to be
    cocky, but be the one they want to come to and don’t make your feeling of
    completion revolve around finding a woman. You want to have the attitude that
    if a woman rejects you or isn’t interested that THEY lost out on
    a really good guy.

    I would also
    suggest work on improving yourself – your looks, your credit score, your job,
    your personality. But do these for yourself. Are you happy with a low(ish)
    paying job? Are you happy with your appearance? Your post suggests to me that
    you aren’t.

    I would much rather be with an average man who is happy with himself and his
    surroundings, than one who is super hot but miserable. I want to be with
    someone who shares the same interests, who can make me laugh, and someone I’m
    happy to be around. For me, appearance is very, very low on my list of desires
    - and I have been told by many men that I am an attractive woman. Thankfully,
    I’ve found all of that in my husband.

    You really need
    to stop and think about what you wrote. You say you are ugly, you have a low
    paying job and bad credit, and you have an attitude about women, yet you are
    casting aside these women that do like you because you want a 9 or a 10. Life
    often doesn’t work that way. I don’t think people should have to settle, but
    you also have to be realistic here. You have to think about what you are
    bringing to the table and what is realistic to expect with that. I would guess
    that somewhere in that group of women that you cast aside, might have been
    someone that would have made you very happy. Like many have already said, maybe
    use this time to work on yourself. Try to work on your career and do what you
    need to do to maybe earn more money and to fix your credit. You say you are
    ugly and I am not sure in what ways, but work on those ways. Whether it is
    losing weight, or getting a new hairstyle, nicer clothes, or gaining more self
    confidence and a better attitude about women and dating.

    Start doing what
    it takes to improve your self value.

    Go to school, get a better job, make more money, go to the gym, eat healthy,
    get hobbies and have fun.

    It will be a long journey, but if you go about the JOURNEY properly IN YOUR
    MIND, you will enjoy it.

    Life isnt about what you can get, or WHO. It is about enjoying life, and the
    moments along the way. The tangible things /people/ women / relationships are
    only there to supplement, not create happiness.

    Start by educating yourself. If you have to, get student loans, or apply for
    financial aid if you need to.

    OP, I’m going to go out on a limb and
    guess you don’t have many friends, guys or girls. If you’re in college, find
    some interests and some clubs to join. Go out and have fun! (Don’t depend on a
    girl for all of your happiness.) Find a few guy buddies and go to a
    strip club. Bring between $50 and $100 and that’s for you, not your buds; they
    should be bringing money of their own. The last time I went to a place like
    that (was 9 years ago), a lap dance costed $20. Approaching a girl dancing was
    $1. (Of course, the view from the 2nd row is almost just as good as the 1st and
    it’ll save you some money!) Just don’t become a regular because the girls are
    only there for one thing: money! Back in college I’d take some friends to
    places like that and we’d have a good time. Girls are interested in guys if he
    looks like he’s having fun in life, so go have some fun in life!”
    none of that applies to women, as long as a woman is hot, cute, pretty, decent or average looking, she doesn’t really need much going for her in her life

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Andrew,
      I think perhaps you should think about this a little differently.
      To encourage people to get excited about their lives is not giving them an assignment as if they were at school, it’s asking you to empower themselves, enjoy their lives!
      If men do not demand the same qualities from the women they’re dating- they don’t really have anyone to blame but themselves.
      Instead of thinking why it’s unfair that women aren’t attracted to men bored with their own lives, ask yourself why there aren’t more men who are aren’t attracted to women who are bored with their own lives.
      Marni :)

    • http://twitter.com/DrewDees06 Andrew West

      i know that if someone is bored with their life, frustrated with it, it hurts men more than women, and women do not need social-skills or conversation-skills, talking-skills as much as men do

    • Ardiana the adventurer

      “Women, girls are attracted to guys, men who have passion and fire for their
      lives.”
      Stop saying women, girls, guys, men! It makes it hard to read! >:(

      “Other arguments, people always say for every woman that has a boyfriend, the man has a girlfriend, they use that as a counter-argument for disagreeing on which gender has it easier in dating and relationships:”

      I like the term “for every woman that has a boyfriend there is guy that has ten girlfriends”. Shows how warped the scene really is. Studies show only 5% of guys really sleep with most of women.

      • Andrew

        why can’t you women admit you have it easier? you women don’t really need anything going for you in your lives

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

    This is what also men, guys have to do but women, girls do not:

    Also, us guys have to be in control
    of our lives, be in charge of our lives, have to make life work for us in order
    to make ourselves boyfriend material, attractive to girls, women. Here is the
    story, example:

    Let’s say you met this girl last
    week, attractive, fit, blonde, in her early 20’s or mid-20’s. You had fun
    talking together, she readily gave you her phone number and agreed to meet up
    for coffee. You arrive 10 minutes early and are all ready for her to show up.
    You are waiting at the time she said’ she’d be there, waiting 10 minutes past
    that time, and still waiting 30 minutes later. She still hasn’t shown up. The
    question is, did you make it work for you, or didn’t you?

    A guy, man, who makes life work for
    him has no difficulty in this situation. He’s brought some work to do, or some
    reading that is important for him to complete. He set up the date at a place
    and time convenient for him, so that if she didn’t show up it wouldn’t wreck,
    ruin his day. He works and flirts with the other girls, women at the coffee
    shop, and ends up having a good time anyway. After waiting 30 minutes, he
    leaves. When he calls the girl, woman who didn’t show, he’s not filled with
    unproductive resentment that she didn’t keep her word. He made life work for
    him and had a good time anyway.

    A guy, man who doesn’t make life work
    for him is so amazed, surprised, astounded, happy that the girl, woman said Yes
    in the first place, that he bends over backward to meet her for the coffee
    first date. He may have canceled something important, rearranged his schedule,
    and come to an inconvenient place to meet her. He’ll have arrived early to
    socialize and have no back-up plan in place for when she doesn’t arrive or if
    she doesn’t arrive. Even if she does arrive, 40 minutes late, he’s so angry and
    upset, humiliated that he can’t have a good time with her. He’s made himself a
    victim by not making his life work for him.

    Sadly, unfortunately, this is a huge
    mistake guys, men make. They expect others, or their circumstances, to make
    life work for them, women, girls, are allowed to let others, or circumstances
    make life work for them but we guy’s, men can’t, unfortuneately.
    The guy who is victimized by his date not showing up was expecting her to make
    the date work for him. As a result, the guy was a victim, just as we guys will
    if we leave making life work in the hands of other people.

    Let’s say there is this guy named
    George, he’s an example, I made him up for this story, he is a tall, balding
    man in his late 20’s. He has an important presentation to make at 8:00 AM the
    next morning. It could make or break his getting that big promotion. After
    wrapping up the final details for his presentation, he decides to go out with
    the guys for a couple of drinks. It is now 9:00 PM, and the bar seems really
    hopping. This girl named Tiffany, touches him, smiles, and even leans over off
    her bar stool to kiss him lightly, pressing her breasts into him. “Finally”
    George thinks to himself, “I’m finally going to get lucky”.

    Unfortuneately for George, Tiffany
    has no intention of leaving before closing time which is 2:30 AM, still 3 hours
    away. George is tantalized with the prospect of sex or a potential date,
    girlfriend dangling before him. He drinks and dances with her until 2:30 AM.
    Then she begs him to take her to an after-hours party until 3:30 AM. Finally,
    he gets her back to his apartment, where they have sex until 6:00 PM. Still
    drunk and exhausted, on one hour of sleep, George gives a terrible presentation
    the next morning. He didn’t get the promotion and his boss’s boss wonders aloud
    what is wrong with him.

    The answer is simple: George didn’t
    make life work for him, at least not in this situation. Once a woman comes on
    the scene, he becomes a victim. He hopes her whims get him a date, a
    girlfriend, relationship or sex and that his life will still work. He becomes a
    victim of his own unwillingness to take control, charge of his life. He is also
    blind-sided by his own urges and has no ability to prioritize the things in his
    life. He acts out of desperation, not like a man with a plan, I don’t see the
    logic in that as to why is being in control, in charge in you’re life a
    masculine, manly thing, etc.

    When another guy named John, finds
    himself in the same or similar situation, his choices, options are easy(I don’t
    see how it is easy). He knows that for life to work for him he must leave the
    bar by 11:00 PM, whether or not there’s a woman on his arm, or welcoming his
    advances. He tells this girl named Amber he has to leave, and she’s
    disappointed. He tells her he’d love to see her again, and gets her phone
    number. He leaves, gets to bed early, and aces his presentation next morning.
    He gets the raise, and is so pumped up by his success that he goes out that
    night and picks up another woman(only the top 5 or 1 percent of guys can pull
    this off) and has sex with her all night. Plus, he still has Amber’s number to
    call her.

    The difference between George and
    John is that John is committed to making his life work for him, while George
    isn’t. George might say he is, but the possibility of a potential date,
    girlfriend, or hook-up makes him throw away his control over his life. If to
    observe both guys, we can see that George is more committed to being a victim
    of his circumstances and to instant satisfaction than he is to long-term gain.
    John sets his intentions and moves toward it. He’s leaving the bar by 11:00 PM,
    because he knows that’s what it’ll take to make his presentation work. His
    presentation is his top priority. He knows a potential date, girlfriend or
    hook-up isn’t worth risking the raise he’s been working on for 3 months. John
    is an effective seducer, George is not unfortuneately.

    Do we guys make life work for you in
    every situation, or are you willing to throw away control of your life when
    there’s the possibility of dating, a relationship, or sex? Unfortuneately,
    pisses me off, in order for us guys to be boyfriend material or just attractive
    to women, girls, we have to set up our lives so that we can get the kind of
    life we want, whether girls are in the picture or not. They count on themselves
    to make their lives work, rather than counting on girls. As a result they are
    more happier, confident, comfortable and content, more in control of their
    lives, more successful, and more attractive to women. It is said that Sex is
    the world’s most expensive commodity(although I would much rather prefer having
    a girlfriend, an actual relationship, sex is not my high priority). Sometimes I
    consider the male sex drive, libido to be a curse, that expensive commodity for
    sex definitely. Us guys hardcore want, desire or need for sex has caused
    Empire’s, Mafia’s to collapse or problems within it, loses them jobs, lands
    them in Jail.

    If we have ever done something that
    hurt our long-term best interests in order to pursue the possibility of sex, or
    dating, a girlfriend, then we guys are not making life work for us. If we’ve
    ever felt like a victim in our interactions with girls we’ve dated or most
    likely we have tried, attempted to date, then we too, haven’t been making life
    work for us. In both situations we have not been a “boyfriend material, hook-up
    material” type of guy. As much as I hate, despise, loathe it, these traits,
    attributes, qualities, habits branch beyond dating and relationships,
    boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. Guys who are committed to always making life work
    for them are always asking themselves how they can improve their experience of
    any situation. If an effective seducer is on a business trip and gets caught in
    an airport for a 4-hour layover, he doesn’t whine or complain, get frustrated,
    pissed off about it, or if he does, he gets it over with quickly. He asks
    himself “How can I make this work for me?”, and he keeps on asking until he
    comes up with an answer that works for him. He may make calls that need to be
    made. He may set up his laptop and get some work done. He may find the airport
    bookshop and find a book he’s been meaning to read. He may even call phone sex
    on his cell phone from an empty bathroom wall(lol never in a public place).

    A guy who always makes life work for
    him is willing to be outrageous to have that happen. He wants a life that he
    lives fully. When caught in the airport, he may set himself the goal of
    flirting with ten women and getting one to go out on a date with him, welcome
    his advances or hook-up. He decides the quality of experience he’s going to
    have, and creates his life to achieve it. If you are going to be a guy that is
    boyfriend material or extremely attractive to girls, women, you must do this
    too. Here are some of the questions an attractive, boyfriend material guy
    constantly asks himself: “How can I make this experience work for me?, What
    quality of experience am I committed to having, no matter what happens? What is
    a physical action I can take, right now, to create that experience for myself?
    What’s most important to me in this situation? How can I get that? What would
    make this situation most fun?”

    By asking yourself these questions
    and committing to making life work for you rather than counting on other
    people, in this case, women to do it for you, you will become the kind of man
    women are most attracted to”

    It’s okay for girls, women to want or need a
    boyfriend to complete them but never the other way around. Many guys and girls
    for that matter, view dating, relationships, having a boyfriend/girlfriend as
    something to fill the void in their lives. They think that once they get a
    boyfriend/girlfriend they will have “something to do”. If you have this
    mindset(and unfortuneately, it only applies to guys) everything you say or do
    will drip with desperation rooted in the fact that you have no life, or one
    that you don’t enjoy. Loving your single life means that you have friends and
    hobbies, passions that you enjoy, and consider having a girl in your life as
    something nice to have, not a must-have. Guys with a vibrant single life are
    attractive to women who want to find out “what he’s all about”.

    Guys who haven’t been successful with girls
    for most of their lives or all of their lives usually aren’t very happy with
    other aspects of their lives(I beg to differ, not every guy). Over the years,
    guys can get caught in a vicious cycle of letting themselves go, physically and
    mentally, until they have very little chance or no chance at all at attracting
    the type of girls they prefer. After a few initial failures, rejections with
    girls, some guys retreat entirely from any form of social interaction,
    preferring to play video games, eat fast food every night, and addressing only
    the bare minimums of personal hygiene.

    Guys who let their lives deteriorate
    to hermit status can’t simply memorize an opener and expect it to work. It
    takes more than a well-delivered opener to catch a girl’s attention, and it
    starts with loving the life you currently have. True, there are people who
    absolutely love playing video games all night, by themselves, surrounded by
    take-out containers. However, since your reading this, you probably don’t fall
    into that category, and hopefully you have the capacity to admit to yourself
    whether you are enjoying your life or think that your life can use some
    improvement.

    If you don’t really like the life you
    have at the moment, all is not lost. There are steps you can take, small and
    large, to improve how you view yourself and your circumstances. Whether or not
    you have a lot of disposable income, the goal is to completely fill your life
    with so many activities you enjoy that you have got to figure out how to fit a
    girl into your life. You want to be or look in a position where you choose to
    get involved with someone because it might make your life even better.

    Whatever you love to do, might love
    to do, or used to love to doing are all areas you should explore in your
    community. Log off the computer and open an alternative weekly paper from your
    area and find people, places, and events that match your interests. It can be
    difficult to connect with random people, but it can be significantly easier if
    you stack the odds in your favor by frequenting the places in which you enjoy
    doing what you love to do.(girls, women, don’t have to do this).

    Loving your single life gives you
    much more confidence when meeting girls. Since you already love your life, you
    aren’t looking for a girl to ‘complete’ you, so you won’t be desperate for any
    particular interaction to lead to a phone number, date, or more. When you’re
    living and loving your life, girls always notice and they’re curious why you
    have such a good time doing everything you do.

    Stay busy, have lots of things you enjoy doing, be independent, and just
    be happy with who you are. Women are attracted to men who are confident and
    interesting. So if you’re staying busy and enjoying life, women will naturally
    be more attracted to you.

    “Women don’t want to date
    men who aren’t happy with their life, period. They’re naturally attracted to
    men who have their own identity & look like born leaders. Just go do what
    you love to do & enjoy life while you still have it”

    I
    see lots of guys in the Seduction Community make the same mistake over and
    over, regarding where their priorities are… Namely, letting pickup take over
    their life. Guys spend all their time reading forums, downloading more and more
    material, studying every guru’s philosophy and eventually it becomes their
    whole life. Guys start to look at the world as one big sarge and lose the
    ability to act like a normal person with friends and other priorities in their
    life.

    This
    is why so many guys you meet in the community are fucking weird. There are
    plenty of great guys in it, but also a lot of weirdos. Make an effort to be a
    normal person before being a Player… You’ll be happier.

    Pickup
    should be just one of the hobbies you have. Don’t spend more than 2-3 days a
    week on it and don’t spend all your free time trolling the internet for more
    info… Learn what you need to to so that you are getting results but then just
    go out and have fun, go to the gym, do some reading, play sports, learn
    something new…

    Girls
    love guys with a genuinely good lifestyle which is why guys who obsess over
    only pickup are actually hurting their chances with girls. What they are doing
    is putting women and their need for validation above all other things and the
    gaping void that forms in their life because of this will be subcommunicated
    eventually and drive girls away. This is a horrible dynamic to create in your life.
    Sitting in front of a computer, reading forums and spending hours worrying
    about what opener to use is the worst lifestyle you can have. Your pursuit of
    women should be a small facet of your overall well developed lifestyle; not
    vice-versa.

    Go
    out and make some friends. Real friends. Not just community guys. It’s stupid
    if all the people you hang out with are community guys. If you do so, you are
    limiting yourself from all that life has to offer

    Starting
    out, of course take a workshop to get you on the level where you can continue
    to progress by yourself, then take community guys(wings), and train with them
    during the 2-3 days a week you dedicate to gaming. Other than that, make sure
    you have a balanced, interesting, fulfilling life and you will get much better
    results than if you spend 20 hours a week “studying” pickup.

    Start
    doing this today

    When you switch your mindset to goals to improving yourself. Females
    will see this and want to be part of your life. Because they see a REAL MAN
    improving or trying to improve himself rather than a weakling trying to get
    laid.

    When you switch your mindset to goals to improving yourself. Females
    will see this and want to be part of your life. Because they see a REAL MAN
    improving or trying to improve himself rather than a weakling trying to get
    laid.”

    Look at all of the damn work,
    chores, burdens we men have to do in order to be successful with girls, women? To
    make ourself attractive? Yes, anything worth having in life does not come easy, but since women don’t have to have those traits, qualifications, in order to be girlfriend, dating/relationship material, thats why it comes easy for them

  • Jim

    Only in the way that they are the ones in the majority of occasions who decide yes or no.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      At least- on the surface.
      Marni :)

  • edgar

    i dont know why, but i still skeptical

    • Marni Wing Girl

      over?
      Marni :)

  • edgar

    i think you should do a test where you bring a hot man and hot woman and see who get approach the most.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Great idea Edgar!
      Marni :)

  • Jon

    Women expect men to have a key to their feelings. However, men have been taught from an early age to ignore their feelings. When I was young and not feeling well I was just told I was not mentally tough enough. How can women expect a man to have a key to her feelings when he has ignored his own his whole life? I believe that is where the lack of confidence on the mans part comes from.

  • Vanessa

    I find it easier for men dating then women or at lest just me. I will start talking to a guy asking how he doing and they will the answer but they don’t ask me what’s going on. I try to interact but i just get the cold sholder. So then that makes me feel like I am just bothering them. And that goes for online dating and just meeting someone for the first time.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-West/100001012072537 Andrew West

      well you don’t need to have confidence, you don’t need to have things going for you in your life, you can be boring, you can be socially-inept, socially-awkward and still get a boyfriend, a woman does not need social-skills since she doesn’t have to approach or initiate conversation

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hey Vanessa,
      An interesting viewpoint. It seems like both guys a gals out there think they do all the talking!
      Marni :)

    • mattsh

      At least you are taking action/responsibility and iniating conversations Kate. I relate to what you are saying as I try to chat in various situations daily and yes sometimes I have to pretty much carry the conversation, but I am honestly not bothered. I certainly used to be bothered and think there was something wrong with me or my ‘conversational skills’. When it’s obvious we don’t click I just talk to someone else. But I still enjoy the brief chat because being social is a form of giving. Don’t ever think you are bothering guys though, most people repeat their same boring patterns every day – speaking to a new person has to be a new and often welcome change.

    • Urusigh

      Don’t start with open-ended questions like “how are you doing?” There are way too many ways to answer that and most of them will seem wrong to him. Concrete questions like “So, what’s your favorite TV show this season?” or even “Hey, are you single right now?” are better. Feelings are an extremely vulnerable area for men and if it looks like a stranger is trying to draw them out we are likely to shut down fast. Really, most guys don’t even have the emotional vocabulary to answer “How do you feel” with something that isn’t along the lines of “cold, I guess”. Think of it like a random guy walking up and asking a sexual question of you. It’s a very loaded topic and this person, however otherwise attractive, has not established any reason yet to be trusted with such sensitive information.

  • Vanessa

    I think it’s men who have it easier then women. This is from mine point, causes men don’t have to engage in a conversation. I tried to talk make small talk but the guy doesn’t engage then I feel like I am bothering him.

  • HaleyHay

    I think dating isnt easier for either one. Women have a lot of pressure on them to look our best we also freak out thinking what if he doesnt like it. Some women do offer to pay for things but the man says no I got it which leads women to think well I wont have to worry about paying for the dates. We also think well what if I dont look good enough and his eyes find someone new to look at. Men have the same problems they have to find a place and look good. They freak out wondering if we will like it or like them. We both have a ton of pressure on us and we both think well he has it easy all he has to do is pay and pick a spot for us to eat or where to go. They think we have it easy cause all we have to do is show up and smile. You have to put yourself in each others place and realize no one has it easier we both stress out about the same things. So no one has it easier.

    • Urusigh

      Tip, the offer to cover yours is much appreciated. The proper response when we say “No, I got it” is “thank you” (or other appreciative gesture, touch is also good). If you never offer, it looks and feels like we are being used for our money. For this reason, we may occasionally even accept your offer, just to make sure that it was genuine and you don’t really measure the value of our company with dollar signs. By saying “I got it”, we get to display that we are successful, capable providers, a fact that is very core to our identity as men. To express appreciation for our provision thus reaffirms your own femininity and respect for our masculinity. Seriously, this is the pattern in a lot of male-female interaction. Make x optional, give us respect and appreciation for doing nice things because we want to do them, not because we have no choice.

    • Marni Wing Girl

      Hi HaleyHay,

      I agree that there are going to perks and pitfalls to either genders. Which is why a little empathy goes a long way.

      Marni :D

  • Stefano

    Women just need to accept or reject whenever a man comes their way and tries to hook up with them. For men on the other hand, we must take care of every detail from the very beginning. We must walk across, do the first move and get to know them. We must lead the talk and attract them. We must ask them out on a date. Then on a date, we must take care not to screw up. Then we must find the right moment for the first kiss and so on. Furthermore, we are always so nervous about it and this is always a turn off for both. It is a mining field where the first wrong step gets to a global failure. That’s why so many times our motivation is too low to take action.

  • Maria

    I am a woman of 52 and its not about who is it easier for to date really. I think being open to people and not prejudging based on external things would make it a lot easier if men just took the chance to approach a woman they would not picture as their ideal woman. There are plenty of single great gems out there for a man to put some polish too. We don’t really know past the physical attraction what men want in a woman…i have all kind of hobbies like my favorite Fishing. I make my own wine,i garden, very much enjoy the outdoors. Yes conversation is something i enjoy also, but not the only thing. You can’t tell by just looking at me how intelligent or good hearted i am. Or how hot ot can be to spend a night with me either. So gentlemen be open to different woman. Confidence is hidden in the first shy meeting, on both sides. But getting to know someone is the only way yoi will be able to build the intimacy and ger comfortable with the enjoyment of one’s presence with no need for word’s. Once you are comfortable and friends first…a look will be understood without the need for word’s. A soft touch…holding of hands as you walk the park…just cuddling in each others arms and listening to the others breathing and heart beat as you lay your head on his/her chest will bring you inner peace and be a constant stress releiver when ever you want it. So gentlemen stop focussing only on the external attraction part…its the reason you are missing out on rhe Diamonds disguised as saphires…the woman with true depth i think you really want in your life. Take a chance and approach the quiet smiling brunette with glasses and a bit of extra plumpness in her thighs or mid section…she is looking for the man she can cherish and call great friend and truely be there whenever he needs her. Just make sure you remember to tell her how great she is whenever the thought comes to mind and you will be happy for making her hapoy with so few words.