Check out my newest Askmen video on what to do for valentines day if you just started dating!
“Valentine’s Day, whatever your relationship status, can be tough to get right. I understand, some of you guys will think it’s overly commercial, and shouldn’t be bought into. Whilst some of the women in your life might take it as a sign you don’t care, if you ignore it.”
Some women? yes in the same way, “some” people in the tea party dislike obama.
V-day is an unfortunate part of our culture, an archaic remnant of “courtship” and “men providing for women” – now if a woman buys into all that- then great she should expect things for V-day.
From my experience, the best way to deal with V-day is head it off at the pass, and usually plan something for either before or after, that way you feed whatever BS social programming the woman has that gives it value, and you also show you’re not going to be one of the sheep., and you likely save bucks too because you don’t buy into the commercial nonsense, I think there are a few women out there that still respect a guy thats trying to be smart with his money.
Lol, you are very negative skw. If you don’t like women all that much, why are you here?
Its all about considering her feelings. V-day is just a focussed day to do that
Thanks for this article Marni. I have a date tomorrow evening and if it turns into a second and third this is something I will have to consider.
Lol!! I agree Rich! I have been on the forum quite a few times and skw seems to post a lot of stuff and it generally has a negative vibe! I get the impression he is pretty intelligent and has come to a conclusion that logic should always prevail and if the real world doesn’t correspond to his logic the real world must be wrong! I used to be a bit like that but I realised that there’s no point fighting the world and moaning about it. You may as well just do your best to succeed with what you’ve got! That’s called being a man.
I think a crucial part of attracting women is to actually like women. It’s easy to pin the blame on someone else, or even an entire gender, if life hasn’t been brilliant up until now, but it doesn’t make for a happy life.
“I used to be a bit like that but I realised that there’s no point fighting the world and moaning about it.”
Good thing you weren’t around to advise the people in this world who actually made some kind of lasting change :
“Cmon Dr. King, whites will never treat blacks as equals, stop fighting the world’
“Cmon Neil, you’ll never go to the moon, stop fighting the world..”
“C’mon Steve, no one’s going to want a computer in their house, stop fighting the world”
Those things might be worth fighting for but in the context of this debate you aren’t personally fighting for improvement like the guys in the 3 examples were, you are just complaining.
They were motivated, passionate people who took action and acheived things. Whereas your conflicts with the world appear to me to be manifested more as excuses and complaints rather than action and results.
You have every right to post your opinions on this forum even if they are negative most of the time. But it gives the impression that you are a bitter, negative person.
The main reason I am taking the time to reply to your comments is I think if I could help you to realise this is unattractive you might be able to make an improvement to yourself.
Hey, it’s not that I particularly invest in the concept of valentines day. I just don’t feel the need to vent my spleen about how bad it is. The fact that you do gives the impression you need to find peace with yourself and stop being so angry at the world.
This isn’t the first post you have submitted with negative comments! Maybe try posting something more positive next time. See if you’ve got it in you to be upbeat instead of pessimistic.
In conclusion, I think you’re right in that maybe I shouldn’t have used the phrase “fighting the world”. A more accurate description for your situation might be that you’re “angry” at the world.
” fighting for but in the context of this debate you aren’t personally fighting for improvement like the guys in the 3 examples were, you are just complaining.”
-do you know how many people thought people like MLK were just complaining? Rather than just accepting the situation as it is, he was forcing unnatural unity?
“They were motivated, passionate people who took action and acheived things.”
I am taking action, I think the more women that are de-programmed from social BS nonsense like “he has to pay” and “he has to buy me a ring” and “he has to do stuff for me on valentines day or im running for the hills” the better the world would be – wouldn’t you?
“I could help you to realise this is unattractive you might be able to make an improvement to yourself.”
I see, so stop believing what I truly to believe, pretend to have different opinions so that I can become attractive. Does that sum it up? Whatever happened to Marni’s advice of honesty:
“2012 is the year of honesty. No more covering up your intentions and suppressing your masculine urges.”
“”This isn’t the first post you have submitted with negative comments! “”
I post what I believe. if you see them as negative, well, not much I can do about that. What would you see as positive?
As for anger, yes there is anger there. As there is in most cases for people motivated to make big changes in society and the world. Even Gandhi was angry, it’s how he chose to act on that anger…
I personnally think Valentines Day is the biggest farce on the face of the Earth… It takes any spontaneous thoughts or jestures right out of the equation and anything romantic like flowers go waaay up in price around this time of year…. what a joke.
If I don’t do something for a girl I’m dating she may feel like I don’t care, well, if she does do something then I feel she’s just buying into societies attempt for creating another excuse to spend money… do I really want someone in my life who follows the crowd and can’t think for myself is what goes through my mind! I do things all the time to show the women in my life I care and hate the idea that I need to be romantic on a certain day…
It may seem cold but in reality it’s the plain and simple truth!!!
Sorry if it offends Marni but it had to be said!
“Its all about considering her feelings. V-day is just a focussed day to do that”
Any day geared to focus on our feelings?
“If you don’t like women all that much, why are you here?”
I like women mainly because I think they are physically attractive, and my brains pleasure centers are triggered (dopamine is released) when I am in physical contact with them.
beyond that, I’m more indifferent. Sorry if this isn’t lofty or noble or one of these, “I love women for all their flaws bla bla” type messages. But at least I’m being honest.
ok no problem., that’s what the US flag represents…do your ting pal
which is supposedly guaranteed to get me women in 2012:
I’m with you my friend….
If a woman thinks less of me because I didn’t do anything for BValentines Day, then isn’t that judging a book by its cover and not all of its contents???
Just a thought
I don’t think so on this occasion: I think a woman would feel like you didn’t like her that much, and that’s why she would think less of you… because she’s worried that you don’t like her in return! It doesn’t take much time/ money to show her the exact opposite is true, make her day and strengthen your connection with her
Some of you guys might want to consider something similar to this. I brought a tablecloth and two candles stuck in empty Chianti bottles to the local taco shop for a Valentine’s Day dinner date one year and they (a mother, her daughter, and each brought a girlfriend)never forgot it. It shows that you recognize the occasion without being too much of a chump. What’s a burrito go for these days? 5 bucks? Live a little.
All I’m saying is that it doesn’t have to be all that. Bring a pizza on a picnic. If that isn’t enough for her, then maybe it’s better off the sooner you know.
Some of you guys are going to be jaded for a long time if you start this young. Don’t bring your baggage to the table.
I think this is a really fun idea: and you’re so right, it doesn’t take a lot of money to make someone happy, and show that you care.
“judging a book by its cover and not all of its contents???”
It’s actually judging a book by another book that says “this is how all books must be like”
Sorry, but every comment by this person named “skw” made me feel sorry for him (I presume it is a him). You know there is more to this life then saving your money, and getting “physically attractive” women in contact with you.
Sometimes it takes a bit more of a man to realize that doing something nice for someone else isn’t all that bad of a thing. And if valentines day is set out to exploit this then tell me…. why are we complaining?
It personally is my favourite thing to see a womens face light up when i surprise her with a personally made poem/letter to her for valentines day (or any day in general) with a gift of some kind, may it be just a beautiful kiss… This, skw, is what i believe valentines day should be held in high regard for, because maybe some people need to break free of their routines and their selfish personalities for one day of the year, and come to the conclusion that doing someone a truly heartfelt action is one of the most important things to life. And will serve as a profound and lighthearted memory.
The more I meet people, the more i see the divide between the selfish, and the “real” people, in the now, experiencing life as it should, and understand that there is more to it then them self.
Life should be cherished and enjoyed, not worried about having to buy something for someone on valentines day, when instead you can put some of your own PASSION into something you love to offer them to see that sparkle in their eye light up….
Lol run for the hillz
I agree- doing random acts of kindness not only makes another person feel great: but it also builds your own self esteem, and helps you to feel great about you.
Keep it up
Anders’ comment is typical of so many men. They’re romance losers. They have no clue how important this is to a woman. And why is that so? It’s because being romanced is her equivalent of sexually scoring for you. This is what makes her want to throw her arms above her head and perform a victory dance. From Day 1 our society has both overtly and covertly told her to be an enticer of men and to make us swoon over her; and beyond just wanting her sexually. Being romanced is her confirmation of success and of being wanted.
It doesn’t matter if you even just met her the day before V-day. You need to make at least some sort of gesture. Otherwise you’re a disappointment. Just a flower with a note would be sufficient. And better yet if you drop it off at her workplace so the rest of the women there would notice and be envious. Or maybe place it at her door for a surprise when she comes home from work.
And Marni’s comment about “make it personal if possible” is so true. That would show that you actually listen to her and pay attention.
Hahah yes I think this might be quite true: romance fulfils an emotional need to be loved by women. Skip this gesture and you won’t fulfil her.. maybe in the same way you feel when she rolls over in bed and says she has a headache!
And here’s something else for the guys who have been going out with a woman for a long time. All year long she is hoping you will do something that touches her for no other reason than that you have strong feelings for her. If you generally fail at that, she is saddened. And that expectation is multiplied by a factor of 10 when those big dates arrive; her birthday, Valentine’s Day, an anniversary, etc. Her emotional needs demand at least some type of romance effort on your part. If you mess up even on these days, then buddy, romance-wise you REALLY suck. That is the kind of stuff that leaves permanent, emotional scars and breaks up a relationship.
It’s sad but I totally agree: missing out on commemorating these mile stones in your relationship will leave a woman feeling unloved and can defintiely contribute to relationships breaking up
By the way.. to all the woman that want to be romanced, pampered, and “taken care of”:
“Her emotional needs demand at least some type of romance effort on your part. If you mess up even on these days, then buddy, romance-wise you REALLY suck. That is the kind of stuff that leaves permanent, emotional scars and breaks up a relationship.”
Reading something like this, I think, “hmmm what should I DO to make her happy” but I DONT actually believe what Im doing, I’m just doing it to reach the very goal you speak of.
Doesn’t this make me deep down a dishonest person, not authentic to my true being and beliefs?
Women have been taught and socialized to apply value to the things arbitrarily. I’d like to see a correlation between divorces and valentines day ackwnowledgement. Show me some data that says buying roses or any bullshit on V-day translates to better relationships?
Romance is a western concept, it’s not inherent to our beings, first of people have to understand this. The word itself is ‘romans” as in, ‘having root in rome’, and it was a word used during the 14-15th century to denote anything of fantasy, hightened emotion, basically NOT REAL.
You are a sad failure of a human being, skw.
really? because I don tagree with eveything you say?
btw, I had a conversation recently with a female friend and she completely said Valentines day was a crock, just a commercial load of crap used to sell cards, gifts, chocolates etc.. and she even went on to diss diamond rings, that it was a brilliant marketing campaign done by a diamond jewelry company, that 1. diamonds arent even the most precious stone, 2. diamond rings for engagements was never done prior to the 20th century.
So for all you kumquats that think this stuff is innate in women and in built, you’re sorely mistaken. It is however deeply embedded in their brains after years and years of marketing, media and social conditioning.
so the question is, are we going to educate our women or let them continue propagating senseless traditions?
Probably 99% of people feel the same way as you about the commercialisation of Valentines day.
The point is you can do Valentines day on your own terms. Do something completely non-commercial, don’t be a sucker to the marketing industry, but make the best of the positive aspects of the concept.
Many things in life can be viewed from both a negative angle and a positive one.
The trick to being an attractive, happy person is to focus on good things and either avoid the bad or do something to change them.
In this case, if you want to improve the world by changing people’s attitudes towards Valentine’s day you would be better off suggesting proactive, positive ways to celebrate it without being a sucker to the commercial side that ruins it.
I think it’s a pretty sweeping statement to say that Valentine’s day is a crock just because some aspects of it have got out-of-hand.
Try to fix it. Not throw it in the bin.
Focus on the positives.
“Probably 99% of people feel the same way as you about the commercialisation of Valentines day.”
what? not according to my data.
“In this case, if you want to improve the world by changing people’s attitudes towards Valentine’s day you would be better off suggesting proactive, positive ways to celebrate it without being a sucker to the commercial side that ruins it.”
I agree, but valentines day usually means:
-guy does something for girl, if guy doesn’t do anything for girl, girl runs for hills.
yes I agree, one can change the meaning of valentine’s day.
but, if you change the meaning of valentine’s day – then it ceases to be valentine’s day. it now becomes, “day in which you do something positive”
see my point?
valentines day, by definition is a marketed holiday with very little history behind it that still lingers. At least Christmas maintains some of its religiosity.
I agree the roots of Valentine’s day are very contrived but I think the meaning of it all these days has ALREADY changed.
It’s meaning has EVOLVED.
I think most positive people generally consider the Valentine’s day ethos to be something along the lines of:
“the one day of the year when we focus a little more attention on showing our partner we care about them”
In a utopian world there would be no point having this day because everyone would already have expressed all the necessary care towards their partner but in the REAL world people all fall short of perfect so one day a year to remind everyone about something so important for everyone’s happiness seems pretty fair to me.
And I don’t think all the ladies out there think it is a one way street where the man is supposed to put all the effort in. If anyone’s lady DOES think that way I would suggest she ain’t a particularly great lady!
Evolution is inevitable on this planet.
Just because some things evolve from dubious beginnings doesn’t mean they can’t one day become great.
“And I don’t think all the ladies out there think it is a one way street where the man is supposed to put all the effort in. If anyone’s lady DOES think that way I would suggest she ain’t a particularly great lady!”
Then, there are many not-great ladies out there. And my opinion is, they think the man-action-toward women is necessary, and the reverse is ‘icing’ so to speak.
“Just because some things evolve from dubious beginnings doesn’t mean they can’t one day become great.”
Then it’s no longer Valentine’s day, like I said. It’s “that day where we focus more attention on our partner”
But even *that* I question, when “attention” is usually expected in the form of roses, heart shaped boxes of candy, or some such thing.
I could continue to describe the world as I perceive it, looking for the best in everything.
But you will no doubt continue to describe the world as you see it. Looking for the worst in everything.
I don’t predict a productive outcome from further conversation. So thanks for your time but I’m done.
Some people have a hard time enjoying life, rather they focus on the negatives all over the place.
Why can’t Valentines Day just be a day when we do something special for someone we love, and see their eye’s light up?
“I don’t predict a productive outcome from further conversation. So thanks for your time but I’m done.”
Excuse me while I lament these turn of events.
“Why can’t Valentines Day just be a day when we do something special for someone we love, and see their eye’s light up?”
Shouldn’t that be every day?
The point is: Valentine’s Day as it has been presented and commercialized should be shot and crushed into the ground. Sure you can transform it, but then it’s no longer Valentine’s Day.
““Why can’t Valentines Day just be a day when we do something special for someone we love, and see their eye’s light up?””
And this is total hogwash. You love your mother and sister I take it? Yet society doesn’t tell you to buy them chocolates and roses and fancy dinners on Valentine’s day ?
Why is it I seem to be the only honest voice around here? Let’s call a spade a spade. or a heart shaped box of chocolate a heart shaped box of chocolate.
“Shouldn’t that be every day? ”
Yes, I agree, it should. lol But why not use Valentines Day as a day to build up the suspense and put more effort then we usually do to feel the love and make someone feel like they are special. Yes, we should do this everyday, but I am saying take it to the next step, write a poem, gift her a flower, prepare a dinner, anything out of the ordinary. Just because you want to, not because you feel you have to buy her some huge valentines day heart shaped chocolate box. And guess what? You might actually get a good feeling from doing something nice, rather then complaining and being negative. If you aren’t grateful for what you have then you should re-evaluate who you are with or what you have, because it sounds to me like you are just unhappy.
And yes I do love my mother, and will probably give her a call on valentines day to remind her what a great mom she is, but this can be done any day.
“Why is it I seem to be the only honest voice around here?”
Yes, I believe you are being honest, but the fact is that you are instead showing your selfishness, and inability to show affection. Where as everyone else here is telling the truth, only they have much more positive perspectives.
Really like the fact you give your mum a call on Valentine’s day: it is all about having an excuse to do something positive for another person. Which in turn, you’re right, should make you feel more positive about you.
We are all selfish, but obviously skw’s so-called “selfishness to want hot women” isn’t being fulfilled. So diss him if you want, but its missing the point. If the masses weren’t selfish, then celebrities wouldn’t be celebrities and hot girls wouldn’t have the ace card to emasculate men into puppy-dogs, especially by overdoing Valentine’s Day for their own selfishness and benefit.
Having said this, if there is genuine true love between two people then what a great day Valentine’s Day can be. Yes, every other day should be the same, but Valentine’s day is a reminder and an accentuation. But ONLY if there is genuine true love.
“Then, there are many not-great ladies out there. And my opinion is, they think the man-action-toward women is necessary, and the reverse is ‘icing’ so to speak.”
Skw this is spot on and I’ll call a spade a spade here. This is not limited to Valentine’s Day, I think there are a growing number of not-so-great ladies that believe hotness is all they need and can’t be bothered with having decent character. This isn’t sour grapes, it’s factual observation. And with all due respect, Americans, Polish and Russian culture is probably the worst for these kinds of attitudes. And no, all you naysayers who think I’ve been hurt by girls from these places and are full of sh#t, you are wrong. Im currently having regular sex with a russian on my terms, but boy did I have to use the gift of the gab to show her who runs Valentine’s Day – she had an attempt to pussify me into being her little puppy but she underestimated my savvy and brains and now fancies me more so get that lol.
“But why not use Valentines Day as a day to build up the suspense and put more effort then we usually do to feel the love and make someone feel like they are special.”
Why does it have to be Feb 14th? why not Jan 3rd? why not March 24th? Why not December 15th? Why not July 24th?
Why do I have to put more effort on that particular day because society tells me? So not only am I competing with everyone else that day, businesses can make a truckload money off me because some guy decides Feb 14th is the day where i have to put more effort to my loved one, and if I don’t, then I’m being selfish, negative, and incapable of showing affection. Yep makes a whole lot of sense.
“Yes, I believe you are being honest, but the fact is that you are instead showing your selfishness, and inability to show affection. Where as everyone else here is telling the truth, only they have much more positive perspectives.”
Well its subjective what’s positive and whats negative, just because I refuse to be a sheep in the herd, you call it negative, it’s your label. If you don’t think Valentine’s day has been clearly positioned as “men do things for women” day, then you’re either too stupid to realize whats around you, or you’re just ignoring that fact to prove your point. That’s the aspect which is CRITICAL to valentines day. Take it away, yes, you can transform it, but then IT CEASES TO BE VALENTINES DAY!
I remember when someone asked me if my dad played catch with me growing up, I said no, his immediate response, “did he love you?” As if throwing a ball around is the only way to show love? That’s ONE way, not THE way.
That’s the entire point Im making here, and you continually miss it.
You’re like a frog in a well, to the frog that can’t jump out, the well is the entire world, he knows nothing of the world outside his well.
Now try and tell that frog that there’s more out there to the well, and he’ll say, “stop being so negative, why do you hate the well so much?”
Once again Mark, you show true reason and sense in your postings, not shallow, trite “blah you’re so negative!” statements.
“And yes I do love my mother, and will probably give her a call on valentines day to remind her what a great mom she is, but this can be done any day.”
While you may do this, I’m pretty sure the majority of people who say they “celebrate Valentine’s day” will not. and they will still say they celeb V-day.
by the way, as an aside, I’ve had one V-day when I was dating someone, we agreed to watch a movie then. I paid for the tickets and she bought some cupcakes to sneak into the theater.
later when she broke up with me in a pretty cruel fashion, she cited that she bought cupcakes as evidence she was more committed to the relationship (of course she forgot I paid for the movie ticket- oh but Im supposed to, because Im the guy, right?)
So see – even there her action of “showing more affection” had a catch to it, I was required to show something back, and if I didn’t, then WHOP I must be the worst human being on the face of the planet – right?
Skw, yes I have to laugh at all the different dates. My preference would be February 30th!
Yes I agree we have to be honest and forthright. I’m trying to find a way for you and I to be less negative without sacrificing that brutal honesty, as I’m aware negativity is an attraction killer, but I’m kind of stuck. We can’t just throw our experiences, logic and feelings into the toilet and flush it down magically.
because if we suppress the honesty, eventually it bubbles back up anyway, because well… there’s truth to it!
Yes but I do think that sometimes our negativity does also hinder us, and I wouldn’t mind trying to find a way around it for our benefit.
How is the gymming going by the way?
No I agree, well, I think its a case-by-case problem…, in this case, I don’t think its negativity. I think it’s just common sense.
Women will say ‘I don’t believe in god because there’s nothing that proves god exists” or some such nonsense, but they’ll “believe” just the same that roses on valentines day means something substantial, which is just as silly as believing in god, because there’s no proof for either. just a bunch of people (priests and churches in one case, hallmark and russell-stover and marnis in the other) that are telling you “believe and act this way or else you will be damned to [hell, loneliness]”
This is what I think of valentines day:
I agree. Common sense is not part oft he equation for most women. And I think we both know that this also shows that women will go out with a less good-looking guy, an insecure guy, a possessive guy, etc. if the platform is laid right and they are made to believe this is how it should be.
However, I think you’d also agree this is a terrible road to go down. I know it because I’ve been on it. One girl in fact wanted to be bullied by me and loved when i got angry, etc, etc.
I think, and correct me if Im wrong, that part of your issue (and mine) is that we feel the best looking men physically can be “mr. nice guy” and still win on a fair amount of occasions whereas you, me and many others that aren’t a 9 out of a 10 have to invest more in “fulfilling their emotions” through other means then looks, sometimes throguh good, cool behaviour, sometimes through “bad boy” stuff and sometimes through being a downright prick. At the end of the day, I believe its about a women’s emotions and chemistry and hot looks can make a woman feel good and often give instant chemistry…
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